Author Topic: Ships being sold, orders cancelled, ships scrapped due to COVID-19  (Read 21548 times)

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Online Rob Lightbody

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Offline Twynkle

Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #16 on: Jul 22, 2020, 11:58 PM »
Shipyards were already in a precarious position before this outbreak -- this will affect them greatly, perhaps with a brief delay.

Freight liners will still be needed, but they too will be affected, to varying degrees depending on their cargo.

As for crews, this situation will be disastrous for employment, and quite possibly even for some economies, such as the Philippines.

Several friends who work on the ships have written to me as well as to each other,  all containing messages that include the following, ’ hoping we will see you again some day....‘ 
This seems incredibly sad.

This is happening amongst most friends who have chosen to make many close friends all at sea.

Online Rob Lightbody

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Offline Olivia

Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #18 on: Jul 23, 2020, 03:15 PM »
Seems a strange time to announce a new ship...

Offline June Ingram

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Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #19 on: Jul 23, 2020, 03:34 PM »
This does seem an odd time to announce a new ship, especially from Carnaval, who are in dire straights.
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Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #20 on: Jul 23, 2020, 04:20 PM »
This does seem an odd time to announce a new ship, especially from Carnaval, who are in dire straights.

It's probably so far advanced that it's cheaper to proceed with it than to cancel it, especially if they dispose of a few older ships as well?
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Online cunardqueen

Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #21 on: Jul 23, 2020, 04:27 PM »
Quote
  This does seem an odd time to announce a new ship, especially from Carnaval, who are in dire straights. 
What of the new thing that Cunard are building, is that still going ahead ? or just been put on the back burner ?
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Online Thomas Hypher

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Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #22 on: Jul 23, 2020, 05:28 PM »
P&O are still ploughing ahead with a sister for Iona, still saying she'll join the fleet in 2022 as well. As far as I'm aware any ship currently under construction (at what point along the process does that apply from though - keel laying?) will be built albeit seemingly at a slower pace. This seems to include the new Cunard ship although Cunard aren't announcing her name anytime soon last time I read.
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2 in her new life, in Dubai, in January 2020 and August 2022.

Online Thomas Hypher

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Re: Ships being sold and/or scrapped due to COVID-19
« Reply #23 on: Jul 25, 2020, 08:23 PM »
Shipyards were already in a precarious position before this outbreak -- this will affect them greatly, perhaps with a brief delay.

Freight liners will still be needed, but they too will be affected, to varying degrees depending on their cargo.

As for crews, this situation will be disastrous for employment, and quite possibly even for some economies, such as the Philippines.

Don't shipyards normally operate with particularly tight margins anyway? They do a lot of the financing until the ship is payed for by the owner (think steel purchasing etc etc) and of course also have to take penalties if the ship is delayed or has other issues which alone have made some shipyards go bankrupt or nearly go bankrupt (think Sagafjord/Saga Rose's French shipbuilder and Kungsholm at John Browns and maybe even QE2). No wonder this pandemic has thrown a spanner in this too given the somewhat precarious way things normally work.

Meyer Werft have just announced a "holiday" for its employees which I gather is double the usual length and they have to find quite the large sum of money soon in order to survive the next few years:

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/pandemic-forces-german-cruise-ship-builder-into-temporary-shutdown/ar-BB16VvRz

Meyer Werft have also just floated out Spirit of Adventure, and are still in possession of Iona, all floating money pits for them for the foreseeable future.

I think the shipyards that mainly build cargo ships such as those in Japan and South Korea will fare better out of this pandemic than the likes of Chantiers de l'Atlantique, Fincantieri, and Meyer Werft (including Meyer Turku) even though the yards mentioned and others here in Europe don't just build cruise ships.
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2 in her new life, in Dubai, in January 2020 and August 2022.

Online Barumfox

The third sister - Majesty of the Seas - is sailing down the English Channel past her anchored fleetmates Allure and Empress of the Seas off Bournemouth - I wonder if there is a danger of her joining her sisters as her age will also be against her.

the effect on new builds will be interesting but will probably be completed with delays with existing ships being withdrawn earlier than planned to make way as the previous market growth is unlikely to return. New orders will also be a telling indicator.

In relation to P&O withdrawing Oceana, having had to cancel a previous booking it is frustrating but had suspected for the last 18 months that for P&O over the last couple of years Adonia + Oriana + Oceana = Iona in terms of capacity with P&O gaining efficiency and passengers gaining 'wow' factor and facilities but losing choice and other benefits. I managed to book Adonia and Oriana before they were sold and was intending to rebook Oceana before COVID - ideally on one of her Dubai sailings in association with a stay on QE2.

I now suspect Aurora + Arcadia = Iona 2 over the next couple of years - have sailed on both, and am hoping to book Aurora again while I have the chance as has many features I like as well as being the last P&O built ship before Carnival takeover. This would also leave a once balanced P&O fleet with 100,000 ton 3,000+ passenger ships only.

Gary.

Online Rob Lightbody

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I think it will be interesting to see if the trend towards ever-larger ships, with ever larger numbers of bodies on board continues.  I can't be the only one thinking this seems a really bad idea now, and they'd be the ships I'd avoid like the plague (pun intended).

I realise that economies of scale mean that a smaller ship will be more expensive to travel on, but has anyone actually tried to put their mind to a new "clean sheet of paper design" of a smaller (1000 passenger maybe) mass-market cruise ship and how economically it could be built and run?

I realise a huge proportion of the population just won't care, and will want back onto their cheap cruises ASAP, but there will be a lot others like me.
Passionate about QE2's service life for 40 years and creator of this website.  I have worked in IT for 28 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Well, this seems to be happening already in the aeroplane sector, with both the Boeing 747 and the Airbus 380 going out of production and their routes being taken over by smaller versions.

Of the existing planes of these two types, I wonder how many of them are actually flying at the moment…

Online Rob Lightbody

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Well, this seems to be happening already in the aeroplane sector, with both the Boeing 747 and the Airbus 380 going out of production and their routes being taken over by smaller versions.


As I understand it, the driving factor behind their retirement, is that they have 4 engines not 2, so are less efficient per passenger, than the newer long range aircraft with only 2 engines. 

I must admit, personally, to not feeling very comfortable being in the middle of the Atlantic on a plane with only 2 engines, I always loved the 747s, they felt so big and safe and Comfy.   I think every trip I've made to America was on a 747.
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Online Thomas Hypher

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As I understand it, the driving factor behind their retirement, is that they have 4 engines not 2, so are less efficient per passenger, than the newer long range aircraft with only 2 engines. 

I must admit, personally, to not feeling very comfortable being in the middle of the Atlantic on a plane with only 2 engines, I always loved the 747s, they felt so big and safe and Comfy.   I think every trip I've made to America was on a 747.

Yes it's been expected, for a few years, as a result of economics which has then been accelerated by this pandemic. ETOPS rules changes and the greater efficiency of jet engines have allowed the 2 engine airliners to take over more and more in the last couple of decades - particularly the Boeing 777.

I think Emirates are still planning on keeping their A380s for the foreseeable future but then they were/are the largest customer and their way of operating suits the A380 unlike the airline industry trend which is moving away from the Hub model to being more intertwined and dispersed with smaller airliners by comparison.
« Last Edit: Jul 27, 2020, 12:15 AM by Thomas Hypher »
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2 in her new life, in Dubai, in January 2020 and August 2022.

Offline June Ingram

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I believe British Airways have already retired their entire fleet of 747s because of the downturn caused by the pandemic.
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