Docking in Manhattan

[Cruise_Princess]

Hello Cunardqueen.


I remember our entrance to New York and seeing the Twin Towers.  I had never seen anything like them before and although I used to see them on televison I could not believe how amazing they were.

~Yes it was truly wonderful...sadly no longer there but that entrance has now been spoiled by Cunard themselves with that hideous terminal at Red Hook...its just not the same excitement sailing into New York anymore...and have to add that on top of it not being QE2.. another thing that keeps us away from sailing to New York  ......passing so close to the statue of liberty as many of our ancestors did was a moment in time to cherish on every transatlantic sailing....its a shame......and of course wouldn't cross the atlantic on any of the other ships saiing into Manhattan..would have to do a round trip New Yorker to Bermuda or something.. but  wouldn't  have the same meaning.

[Rob Lightbody]

Not to hijack your wonderful topic or anything... but if Cunard advertised special QM2 crossings, where she ran at full speed (6 days) and went into Manhattan instead of Brooklyn, I think these would sell out and appeal greatly to "us" and many like us.  I feel they could charge a significant premium on these crossings.  "The Transatlantic Heritage Crossing"

[Cruise_Princess]

Not to hijack your wonderful topic or anything... but if Cunard advertised special QM2 crossings, where she ran at full speed (6 days) and went into Manhattan instead of Brooklyn, I think these would sell out and appeal greatly to "us" and many like us.  I feel they could charge a significant premium on these crossings.  "The Transatlantic Heritage Crossing"

Think it would be megabucks Rob...apparently they cant afford to turn on the gas turbines to make her go faster hence now the 7 day crossing....so what was the point of having them in the first place?? and all the footering around they had to do to find a place to put them..I think they look  hideous to be honest..

publicity  for Carnival to have  the biggest fastest liner in the world...( shortlived by biggest as we know of course..)  and on a personal note they left out ugly...

When Red Hook was out of operation recently the QM2 voyages were a complete sell out due to one fact..they sailed into Manhattan...
( when QM first came into service the piers were apparently adjusted to accomodate her...and look at the leviathans tat still dock there...bigger then QM2...so theres more to it...wasn;t it something to do with Dubai ownership or something...I can;t quite recall but something at the back of my mind remembers something along those lines...  I still think she looked much better docked in at Manhattan and on sailing out of there too....and of course it was much easier and convenient for the passengers.

[cunardqueen]

apparently they cant afford to turn on the gas turbines to make her go faster hence now the 7 day crossing....so what was the point of having them in the first place??

Well doesnt that say something that a ship that size they cant afford to run her at a faster speed.Or is the increased profit the main reason. Wouldnt have all these things have been figured out well before launch day, or did they plan to reduce the crossing times after a few years ?
Surely you would think they could adjust the speed for the full sailings in the height of summer, Then again the way they have been discounting is she proving hard to fill ?
On the subject of sailing into NY, really the only way to do it is from the decks of an ocean going liner and you really need to dock in Manhattan, Not turn right at the Statue.
 On the farewell crossings l found very strange sailing past where the Twin towers stood, However it was nice to have Manhatten to ourselves
 

[QE2 whistle]

I completely agree.  It's awful a Cunard ship not going to Manhattan past the Empire State Building. It is a complete let down when entering New York.  It's a shame for people who are visitng New York for the first time not to see it properly from the decks of a liner.  We did a round-trip to Bermuda in June on HAL's Veendam and we left from Manhattan.  It was a joy compared to Brooklyn.  Reminded me of the good old days on QE2.  (and she had teak decks)!!!!!!

Rob, the photo of QE2 docked at Southampton was taken from the now Holiday Inn.  It was the Southampton Post House Hotel back then.  (the best view in town).

[rough crossing]

When Red Hook was out of operation recently the QM2 voyages were a complete sell out due to one fact..they sailed into Manhattan...
( when QM first came into service the piers were apparently adjusted to accomodate her...and look at the leviathans tat still dock there...bigger then QM2...so theres more to it...wasn;t it something to do with Dubai ownership or something...I can;t quite recall but something at the back of my mind remembers something along those lines...  I still think she looked much better docked in at Manhattan and on sailing out of there too....and of course it was much easier and convenient for the passengers.

I hadn't realised that Redhook had been out of action and QM2 had been docking in Manhattan recently - Redhook is certainly the main reason I haven't booked a transatlantic since it opened. I had assumed the size of the QM2 had precluded safe docking in Manhattan, but as you indicate clearly other factors are at play if larger ships are still using the old berths. It absolutely staggers me as anybody who knows anything about transatlantic crossings knows that half the magic on the westbound is the approach of Manhattan at sunrise, the historical significance of passing the Statue of Liberty and the slow passage up river glimpsing New Yorkers heading off to work as the sunlight dances between the skyscrapers -and of course the joy of docking in midtown, self disembarkation and a stroll to the centre of the action as you absorb that wonderful feel that can only be New York - in short BLISS!!

So, Cunard, what are you going to do about it? Redhook just doesn't float my boat!     

[highlander0108]

I posted this awhile back on CunardCritic:

I have never bought this arguement either that QM2 was a danger to navigation. I never saw this fact mentioned during her first year in service. Queen Elizabeth at 1031 feet and the France/Norway at 1035 both docked at these piers with no problems. Weren't these piers expressly built to handle the large Queens? QM2 is approximately 100 feet longer, but looking at this photo, her stern lines are tied clearly to the end of the pier and she doesn't appear to be hanging out into the channel at all. In fact, often there are Moran tugs tied up at the ends of these piers and using the same logic, they too would be interferring with the navigatable channel, but I've seen them tied up there all day.

http://wirednewyork.com/images/cruises/cun...ork_24apr04.jpg

The ship was designed for the Manhattan piers!

http://www.professionalmariner.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=420C4D38DC9C4E3A903315CDDC65AD72&nm=Archives&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=B01E9F24E41844049504B323C52C78FB

"Docking the ship in New York will present an unusual challenge. Because the New York piers are only 1,000 feet long, QM2's stern will overhang more than 100 feet into the Hudson River. In order to allow the ship to tie up properly, the mooring stations were designed with especially long fore and aft extensions, or wings. The aft mooring station will have leads placed farther forward than usual and allow the officers to run spring and stern lines despite being in the river, while the bow will have leads running from much farther aft than usual."

Case closed.

[highlander0108]

Here's a screen capture of Google Earth with QM2 docked in Manhattan.  Clearly, the stern barely sticks out and is no where near the channel and a danger to navigation. 

I will always cherish my one and only crossing on QE2 and the early morning arrival, seeing the Statue of Liberty for the first time, all lit up.

[rough crossing]

A picture is indeed worth a thousand words! - this illustration makes the point perfectly - so can someone please enlighten us as to the factors that led to the Red Hook development in the first place? Or have I missed something?

[Cruise_Princess]

the old chestnut rears its head again rough crossing........

MONEY!!!!!

[cunardqueen]

One wonders how they will promote the 3 Queens in New York. Surely its got to be Manhattan ?
It reminds me of some of the budget airlines adverts when they say you will land somewhere but in reality the airport is no where near where you think your going..
 Can you imagine
  "The 3 Queens in New York* (within a 25 mile radius)

Thanks to Kens screen capture lm quite surprised just how little the stern does stick out.

[highlander0108]

Sadly, it will be the two Vista sisters in Manhattan and Queen Mary 2 in Red Hook in January from what I have read elsewhere, but has this been officially confirmed?  Too bad they could not arrange for all three to be lined up in Manhattan.  When was the last time there were three Cunarders lined up at the Manhattan piers?

[Cruise_Princess]

ITey could have done it once before QE2 left it would have been a spectacular marketing feat...can you imagine the aerial photograph of the 3 queens alongside the statue of liberty with manhattan in the background....

its only a ploy to get passengers money as they think it will be just like I described above ...

BUT IT AINT!!!

...and to make matters worse they arrive in the dark and leave in the dark....and NYC in January??? Its like a ~November night in the scottish highlands......dark cold and probably wet.   what fun!!!!!  You would need a good few drams just to keep warm.

We.....the ones who KNOW that don't  bother going...the ones that do not know...are the ones Cunard want.......

Im still in the huff. anyway....still no invite for the new Lizzie at southampton..  nothing about the wait list after the cock up for the maiden....nowt....obviously they don't want me....thats for sure!

That's what you get for  20 years + loyalty .......

Now if I was a newbie.....I'D GET EVERYTHING!   
(sorry for the off topic bit...coodny help it...really got the hump)

[QE2 whistle]

So sorry about the Lizzie lunch Cruise Princess.  We were looking forward to seeing you both again.  Haven't your invites just got lost in the post?  Have you phoned Cunard to see if they were sent?  Might be worth a try.  It just doesn't seem right at all with your record with Cunard.

Back to the subject of docking in Manhattan, I honestly think I would be much more tempted to go transatlantic on Mary if she docked in Manhattan.  My favourite voyage was always transatlantic Westbound but it is such a let-down now going into Brooklyn.  I was always so fed-up when it was time to leave QE2 but at least the entrance to New York and the trip up the Hudson eased it a bit, we never missed it even though we had to get up at the crack of dawn to do it.

[cunardqueen]

It just doesn't seem right at all with your record with Cunard.

Im afraid any long term Cunarder will tell you in by gone days, and lm not speaking all that long ago, it counted for something, Now lm afraid it doesnt count for much, Heck they cant even get the past passenger mailings correct. Its the new passengers who can be swayed with the golden promise of White Star Service when in fact that service was the norm years ago.

 I hate to say it  BUT QE2 (not Cunard) had a special kind of service that was all her own and l doubt we will ever see the likes of that again, Crew who knew who they were dealing without fawning over you, they at times knew what you wanted before you knew it. Its the small things you notice.
 When l walked into the Mauretania at the start of a cruise a few years ago a Maitre D greeted me like a long lost friend, told me what hosted tables l had been on before and where l would be.
 In part my reasoning for not cruising with Cunard now is that to have had the best years on a certain ship l dont want to return to a product that doesnt live upto what it should      that l know how it used to be.
 Who hasnt sat in the Queens room on embarkation day, enjoying the afternoon tea, some of us dont want a buffet meal and spied friends from past trips.
Anyway lm way off topic here sorry !!!