Author Topic: Docking in Manhattan  (Read 8056 times)

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Cruise_Princess

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Docking in Manhattan
« on: Aug 03, 2010, 12:56 PM »
Hello Cunardqueen.


I remember our entrance to New York and seeing the Twin Towers.  I had never seen anything like them before and although I used to see them on televison I could not believe how amazing they were.


~Yes it was truly wonderful...sadly no longer there but that entrance has now been spoiled by Cunard themselves with that hideous terminal at Red Hook...its just not the same excitement sailing into New York anymore...and have to add that on top of it not being QE2.. another thing that keeps us away from sailing to New York  ......passing so close to the statue of liberty as many of our ancestors did was a moment in time to cherish on every transatlantic sailing....its a shame......and of course wouldn't cross the atlantic on any of the other ships saiing into Manhattan..would have to do a round trip New Yorker to Bermuda or something.. but  wouldn't  have the same meaning.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2010, 05:22 PM by Isabelle Prondzynski »

Online Rob Lightbody

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Docking in
« Reply #1 on: Aug 03, 2010, 01:06 PM »
Not to hijack your wonderful topic or anything... but if Cunard advertised special QM2 crossings, where she ran at full speed (6 days) and went into Manhattan instead of Brooklyn, I think these would sell out and appeal greatly to "us" and many like us.  I feel they could charge a significant premium on these crossings.  "The Transatlantic Heritage Crossing"
Passionate about QE2's service life for 40 years and creator of this website.  I have worked in IT for 28 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Cruise_Princess

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Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #2 on: Aug 03, 2010, 07:11 PM »
Not to hijack your wonderful topic or anything... but if Cunard advertised special QM2 crossings, where she ran at full speed (6 days) and went into Manhattan instead of Brooklyn, I think these would sell out and appeal greatly to "us" and many like us.  I feel they could charge a significant premium on these crossings.  "The Transatlantic Heritage Crossing"

Think it would be megabucks Rob...apparently they cant afford to turn on the gas turbines to make her go faster hence now the 7 day crossing....so what was the point of having them in the first place?? and all the footering around they had to do to find a place to put them..I think they look  hideous to be honest..

publicity  for Carnival to have  the biggest fastest liner in the world...( shortlived by biggest as we know of course..)  and on a personal note they left out ugly...

When Red Hook was out of operation recently the QM2 voyages were a complete sell out due to one fact..they sailed into Manhattan...
( when QM first came into service the piers were apparently adjusted to accomodate her...and look at the leviathans tat still dock there...bigger then QM2...so theres more to it...wasn;t it something to do with Dubai ownership or something...I can;t quite recall but something at the back of my mind remembers something along those lines...  I still think she looked much better docked in at Manhattan and on sailing out of there too....and of course it was much easier and convenient for the passengers.

Offline cunardqueen

Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #3 on: Aug 03, 2010, 09:25 PM »
Quote
apparently they cant afford to turn on the gas turbines to make her go faster hence now the 7 day crossing....so what was the point of having them in the first place??

Well doesnt that say something that a ship that size they cant afford to run her at a faster speed.Or is the increased profit the main reason. Wouldnt have all these things have been figured out well before launch day, or did they plan to reduce the crossing times after a few years ?
Surely you would think they could adjust the speed for the full sailings in the height of summer, Then again the way they have been discounting is she proving hard to fill ?
On the subject of sailing into NY, really the only way to do it is from the decks of an ocean going liner and you really need to dock in Manhattan, Not turn right at the Statue.
 On the farewell crossings l found very strange sailing past where the Twin towers stood, However it was nice to have Manhatten to ourselves ;D
 
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline QE2 whistle

Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #4 on: Aug 03, 2010, 09:54 PM »
I completely agree.  It's awful a Cunard ship not going to Manhattan past the Empire State Building. It is a complete let down when entering New York.  It's a shame for people who are visitng New York for the first time not to see it properly from the decks of a liner.  We did a round-trip to Bermuda in June on HAL's Veendam and we left from Manhattan.  It was a joy compared to Brooklyn.  Reminded me of the good old days on QE2.  (and she had teak decks)!!!!!!

Rob, the photo of QE2 docked at Southampton was taken from the now Holiday Inn.  It was the Southampton Post House Hotel back then.  (the best view in town). ;D

Offline rough crossing

Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #5 on: Aug 04, 2010, 09:32 AM »

When Red Hook was out of operation recently the QM2 voyages were a complete sell out due to one fact..they sailed into Manhattan...
( when QM first came into service the piers were apparently adjusted to accomodate her...and look at the leviathans tat still dock there...bigger then QM2...so theres more to it...wasn;t it something to do with Dubai ownership or something...I can;t quite recall but something at the back of my mind remembers something along those lines...  I still think she looked much better docked in at Manhattan and on sailing out of there too....and of course it was much easier and convenient for the passengers.

I hadn't realised that Redhook had been out of action and QM2 had been docking in Manhattan recently - Redhook is certainly the main reason I haven't booked a transatlantic since it opened. I had assumed the size of the QM2 had precluded safe docking in Manhattan, but as you indicate clearly other factors are at play if larger ships are still using the old berths. It absolutely staggers me as anybody who knows anything about transatlantic crossings knows that half the magic on the westbound is the approach of Manhattan at sunrise, the historical significance of passing the Statue of Liberty and the slow passage up river glimpsing New Yorkers heading off to work as the sunlight dances between the skyscrapers -and of course the joy of docking in midtown, self disembarkation and a stroll to the centre of the action as you absorb that wonderful feel that can only be New York - in short BLISS!!

So, Cunard, what are you going to do about it? Redhook just doesn't float my boat!     

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #6 on: Aug 14, 2010, 05:20 AM »
I posted this awhile back on CunardCritic:

I have never bought this arguement either that QM2 was a danger to navigation. I never saw this fact mentioned during her first year in service. Queen Elizabeth at 1031 feet and the France/Norway at 1035 both docked at these piers with no problems. Weren't these piers expressly built to handle the large Queens? QM2 is approximately 100 feet longer, but looking at this photo, her stern lines are tied clearly to the end of the pier and she doesn't appear to be hanging out into the channel at all. In fact, often there are Moran tugs tied up at the ends of these piers and using the same logic, they too would be interferring with the navigatable channel, but I've seen them tied up there all day.

http://wirednewyork.com/images/cruises/cun...ork_24apr04.jpg

The ship was designed for the Manhattan piers!

http://www.professionalmariner.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=420C4D38DC9C4E3A903315CDDC65AD72&nm=Archives&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=B01E9F24E41844049504B323C52C78FB

"Docking the ship in New York will present an unusual challenge. Because the New York piers are only 1,000 feet long, QM2's stern will overhang more than 100 feet into the Hudson River. In order to allow the ship to tie up properly, the mooring stations were designed with especially long fore and aft extensions, or wings. The aft mooring station will have leads placed farther forward than usual and allow the officers to run spring and stern lines despite being in the river, while the bow will have leads running from much farther aft than usual."

Case closed.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #7 on: Aug 14, 2010, 05:25 AM »
Here's a screen capture of Google Earth with QM2 docked in Manhattan.  Clearly, the stern barely sticks out and is no where near the channel and a danger to navigation. 

I will always cherish my one and only crossing on QE2 and the early morning arrival, seeing the Statue of Liberty for the first time, all lit up.

"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline rough crossing

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #8 on: Aug 14, 2010, 09:02 AM »
A picture is indeed worth a thousand words! - this illustration makes the point perfectly - so can someone please enlighten us as to the factors that led to the Red Hook development in the first place? Or have I missed something?

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #9 on: Aug 14, 2010, 09:53 AM »
the old chestnut rears its head again rough crossing........

MONEY!!!!!

Offline cunardqueen

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #10 on: Aug 17, 2010, 02:22 AM »
One wonders how they will promote the 3 Queens in New York. Surely its got to be Manhattan ?
It reminds me of some of the budget airlines adverts when they say you will land somewhere but in reality the airport is no where near where you think your going..
 Can you imagine
  "The 3 Queens in New York* (within a 25 mile radius) ;)

Thanks to Kens screen capture lm quite surprised just how little the stern does stick out.
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #11 on: Aug 17, 2010, 04:14 AM »
Sadly, it will be the two Vista sisters in Manhattan and Queen Mary 2 in Red Hook in January from what I have read elsewhere, but has this been officially confirmed?  Too bad they could not arrange for all three to be lined up in Manhattan.  When was the last time there were three Cunarders lined up at the Manhattan piers?
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #12 on: Aug 17, 2010, 05:46 PM »
ITey could have done it once before QE2 left it would have been a spectacular marketing feat...can you imagine the aerial photograph of the 3 queens alongside the statue of liberty with manhattan in the background....

its only a ploy to get passengers money as they think it will be just like I described above ...

BUT IT AINT!!!

...and to make matters worse they arrive in the dark and leave in the dark....and NYC in January??? Its like a ~November night in the scottish highlands......dark cold and probably wet.   what fun!!!!!  You would need a good few drams just to keep warm.

We.....the ones who KNOW that don't  bother going...the ones that do not know...are the ones Cunard want.......

Im still in the huff. anyway....still no invite for the new Lizzie at southampton..  nothing about the wait list after the cock up for the maiden....nowt....obviously they don't want me....thats for sure!

That's what you get for  20 years + loyalty .......

Now if I was a newbie.....I'D GET EVERYTHING!   
(sorry for the off topic bit...coodny help it...really got the hump)

Offline QE2 whistle

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #13 on: Aug 18, 2010, 07:55 PM »
So sorry about the Lizzie lunch Cruise Princess.  We were looking forward to seeing you both again.  Haven't your invites just got lost in the post?  Have you phoned Cunard to see if they were sent?  Might be worth a try.  It just doesn't seem right at all with your record with Cunard.

Back to the subject of docking in Manhattan, I honestly think I would be much more tempted to go transatlantic on Mary if she docked in Manhattan.  My favourite voyage was always transatlantic Westbound but it is such a let-down now going into Brooklyn.  I was always so fed-up when it was time to leave QE2 but at least the entrance to New York and the trip up the Hudson eased it a bit, we never missed it even though we had to get up at the crack of dawn to do it.

Offline cunardqueen

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #14 on: Aug 18, 2010, 08:53 PM »
Quote
It just doesn't seem right at all with your record with Cunard.
Im afraid any long term Cunarder will tell you in by gone days, and lm not speaking all that long ago, it counted for something, Now lm afraid it doesnt count for much, Heck they cant even get the past passenger mailings correct. Its the new passengers who can be swayed with the golden promise of White Star Service when in fact that service was the norm years ago.

 I hate to say it  BUT QE2 (not Cunard) had a special kind of service that was all her own and l doubt we will ever see the likes of that again, Crew who knew who they were dealing without fawning over you, they at times knew what you wanted before you knew it. Its the small things you notice.
 When l walked into the Mauretania at the start of a cruise a few years ago a Maitre D greeted me like a long lost friend, told me what hosted tables l had been on before and where l would be.
 In part my reasoning for not cruising with Cunard now is that to have had the best years on a certain ship l dont want to return to a product that doesnt live upto what it should      that l know how it used to be.
 Who hasnt sat in the Queens room on embarkation day, enjoying the afternoon tea, some of us dont want a buffet meal and spied friends from past trips.
Anyway lm way off topic here sorry !!!
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #15 on: Aug 18, 2010, 09:50 PM »
I totally agree Cunard Queen

QE2 Whistle....No I won't be phoning Cunard re the Lizzie dates.... Diamond Members do not come down to their level!! ( If you know what I mean!!)  It's up to them to always get it right.....as they used to in the past......there are no excuses!    ...but on top of the fiasco over the maiden voyage it just rubs salt into the wound............just means we have to take our money  elsewhere...as annoying as that is....seems the old QE2 lot are out in the cold when it comes to the new  Cunard Cruise ships....
(I will never forget 2 weeks ago on QV meeting an older ex QE2 crew member who was in a very prominent position on board now downgraded to night steward ....and when asked if he liked it... without speaking....he  just shook his head and his eyes just filled up......( says it all eh?)   We couldn't speak either....)  of course they are NOT allowed to mention QE2 as we know on board the new ships unless a pax brings it up...technically he didn't speak his reply...but his actions said it all...)     Sorry for veering off the topic  here....

  QE2 Whistle ....  Maybe we will meet up when we dock in Manhattan again....   ooooooo..just saw a pig fly past the window!!!!LOL

But wouldnt that be  just LUVERLY!!!

Offline Twynkle

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #16 on: Aug 18, 2010, 10:03 PM »
Sadly, it will be the two Vista sisters in Manhattan and Queen Mary 2 in Red Hook in January from what I have read elsewhere, but has this been officially confirmed?  Too bad they could not arrange for all three to be lined up in Manhattan.  When was the last time there were three Cunarders lined up at the Manhattan piers?

From a different perspective - January 13th could turn out to be quite an interesting occasion!
If sailing in to New York Harbour on either Queen Victoria (or Queen Elizabeth), and mooring at one of the piers in Manhattan, then round to Red Hook on four wheels (shame it won't be by ferry), then embarking on Queen Mary 2 before joining the Vista Sisters with the Statue of Liberty in sight, as well as the possibility of fireworks and a few waving onlookers  - mightn't this be quite a positive experience?!  :)

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #17 on: Aug 18, 2010, 10:03 PM »
Please be more up-beat people, I'm depressed enough here as it is!!   :'(
Passionate about QE2's service life for 40 years and creator of this website.  I have worked in IT for 28 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #18 on: Aug 19, 2010, 04:41 AM »
Please be more up-beat people, I'm depressed enough here as it is!!   :'(

Here's something upbeat Rob!  ;D  Looking at the New York Cruise Terminal online schedule to confirm where QM2 is scheduled to dock in January 2011, I looked ahead to see if there were any other interesting ships on the schedule.  For instance, we're getting an appearance of the Vista Queens kissing cousin the Arcadia in Manhattan for two days at the end of September 2010. But most interesting is this......

Queen Mary is scheduled to return to Manhattan May 17, July 1, and also on July 6 in 2011.  The Caribbean Princess is scheduled for Red Hook for May 17th and July 1st.  July 6th is open on the Red Hook schedule.  Perhaps Cunard decided just to return to the same terminal for the scheduled July mini cruise to avoid problems since Manhattan was open.  Red Hook can accommodate only one ship at a time presently.

The bad news...Queen Mary 2 docks in Red Hook while the Vista Queens dock in Manhattan on January 13, 2011, according to the schedule.http://www.nycruise.com/2010scheduleNYC.html

"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline cunardqueen

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #19 on: Aug 19, 2010, 08:42 AM »
Quote
If sailing in to New York Harbour on either Queen Victoria (or Queen Elizabeth), and mooring at one of the piers in Manhattan, then round to Red Hook on four wheels (shame it won't be by ferry), then embarking on Queen Mary 2 before joining the Vista Sisters with the Statue of Liberty in sight, as well as the possibility of fireworks and a few waving onlookers  - mightn't this be quite a positive experience?!   

Rosie,
  Coming from your angle l would say Yes  ;D   ;)
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #20 on: Aug 19, 2010, 09:59 AM »
All that money to NYC to 'see' 3 ships miles apart in the dark???

not positive for me...

I can see the Arran ferry lit up outside my door every night.....spectacular!  and I don't add to the Cunard coffers......

Why always New York?  How about  the 3 Queens sailing down the Clyde??   and wee waverley leading the way.... Now.....I would be first in the queue for THAT one.  but lets be sensible....it would HAVE to be in daylight,. 


 ARE YOU LISTENING CUNARD????   ( they are not REMOTELY interested)
« Last Edit: Aug 19, 2010, 10:10 AM by Cruise_Princess »

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #21 on: Aug 19, 2010, 10:23 AM »
Do other ships, the same length and height as QM2 ever dock in Manhattan?
Passionate about QE2's service life for 40 years and creator of this website.  I have worked in IT for 28 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #22 on: Aug 19, 2010, 12:50 PM »
Do other ships, the same length and height as QM2 ever dock in Manhattan?

The last ship of equal size was the Epic.  :o
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #23 on: Aug 19, 2010, 06:22 PM »
of course they do Rob..think thats the point of this 'argument',....thats' why we get annoyed.... and lets face it not too many new ships now are smaller than Qm2 anyway...only difference would be the draft. and thats not their 'argument' its all concentrated on length and the turn into the dock.

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #24 on: Aug 20, 2010, 05:55 AM »
From what I have just heard from a tugboat captain, it is not the length that is the problem, but the width of the newer ships, compounded with the 50 foot extensions of the Manhattan piers that were added to aid in the loading of the ships in a more efficient manner.  It's a tight fit to get two large ships between the two piers and have tugs in between.

On a side note, yesterday when I spoke to him on this subject, he commented that the newer ships really do not need the tugs anymore, but they have at least one to standby in case of a problem.  He jokingly said that one tug, like the one he operates, would not be that effective on a ship with the sail area of say the QM2 or the new Epic.  He also said that Cunard was very particular, insisting on coverings over the tug bumpers to protect the paint from scuffs.
« Last Edit: Aug 22, 2010, 02:28 AM by highlander0108 »
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Offline QE2 Canuck

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #25 on: Aug 20, 2010, 07:51 PM »
Come on now guys.!!! Has everybody forgotten the 3 Queens in Manhattan back on January 13, 2008.   QM2 was docked in Red Hook Brooklyn of course and the QE2 and QV were up in the Manhattan docks... but they all got together in the harbour down in front of the Statue of Liberty for a celebration of fireworks.......I was there.... and Bill Miller's recent book about the 3 Queens covers it nicely...... I imagine that will be the plan again for this upcoming January 13, 2013....sure would like to take part again....

Linda C

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #26 on: Aug 20, 2010, 08:30 PM »
Had friends there specially for it....stood in the freezing cold with a few dozen other folks as one of the ships was late in leaving....said they shouldnt really have bothered.....so dark...the fireworks were good and being there of course...but unless you live near the docks its a long way to go for a firework display....
Its not a one off occasion now...over the years there will be plenty more 'Queens' in New York harbour....maybe Ill wait until the 10th Queen is built in a few years time  and they all meet up in Manhattan!!  (Would be like a traffic jam on the river!)  LOL

thats just my opinion and my friends...I'm sure there are plenty of folks who loved it...and wish them well to see it again should they wish. Its just not for me to travel 3000 miles for that.
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2010, 08:35 PM by Cruise_Princess »

Offline QE2 Canuck

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #27 on: Aug 21, 2010, 03:51 PM »
No, I wouldn't travel that far for a fireworks display either... but I wanted to take my family on  QM2 for a trip to the Caribbean and when I discovered that all 3 ships would be there... that was the date I chose.   Yes, it was cold and it started to rain.  QM2 staff had the nice warm plaid blankets out on deck for her passengers... and I of course wanted to see my beloved QE2 one more time.   

Linda C

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #28 on: Aug 21, 2010, 04:42 PM »
SO did you REALLY need the blanket or did QE2 give you the cosy feeling anyway?  LOL!

Offline highlander0108

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #29 on: Aug 22, 2010, 02:39 AM »
I can confirm that coming into New York on QE2 for the first time in January 2008, getting up to see the funnel pass under the Verrizano Narrows Bridge with Ted Scull narrating, seeing the New York skyline in the early morning, and seeing the Statue of Liberty all lit up, was all worth freezing my hands at the grip of my camera.  It was bone chilling cold and completely worth it to experience it all.  The only downside for us was the realization we would never get to experience this again on QE2. :'(  There was something special about sailing up the Hudson ever so slowly and docking at the piers that QE2 and her predecessors traditionally have used throughout Cunard's years of Transatlantic service.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Cruise_Princess

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Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #30 on: Aug 22, 2010, 11:11 AM »
Yes it's a moment in time to cherish  the only time i think I got up soooo early to see us dock in Manhattan on  board the one and only QE2....even the many times we did it after that we still got up to see us sail in..though fortunately sometimes it was at a more civilised daytime hour!!

Sailing out at midnight was spectacular too....in the warmth of late autumn.....but December and January sailings were bone chilliing as said above but still very memorable......even the first tandem sailing in April 2004 felt more like January than April!

Not like sailing in and out of Brooklyn now it just doesn't do it  for me me any more.

Incidentally my Mother  has just mentioned to me just now that when she sailed to New York in the 50s the ships sailed so much closer to the statue of liberty than they do now.......she said you could almost touch it ...and this is also seen in the old movies....does anyone else have recollections of sailing in to New York  at this time?

Offline cunardqueen

Re: Docking in Manhattan
« Reply #31 on: Aug 22, 2010, 08:43 PM »
I found it quite strange on the Farewell crossings to sail in/out and not have the Twin Towers, the last time they were there towering above, and to not see them...... 

« Last Edit: Mar 19, 2022, 11:52 AM by Rob Lightbody »
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!