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Author Topic: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved  (Read 382 times)

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Online Rob Lightbody

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Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« on: Jun 30, 2019, 01:27 PM »
The ownership of Waverley is very confusing to me - which will also be a headache to anyone wanting to invest/donate to understand what will happen to their money.

The below is my notes from http://paddlesteamers.info/waverley.htm

PSPS - Charity which original saved the Waverley - but legally do they have any claim on her now?

WSN - Waverley Stem Navigation Company Ltd - Legally owns Waverley (so does that mean PSPS don't?) - but all shares are "under mortgage" to the National Lottery (so the national lottery owns her?).

WEL - Waverley Excursions Limited - the operating company - subsidiary of WSN - Why does this company need to exist?

Also - who are the key people now involved in managing/directing the whole operation and the various companies.  And what is their relevant experience and qualifications?

The struggle to save Waverley now, has many similarities to the struggle that was going on to Save QE2 in 2009...
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Online cunardqueen

Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #1 on: Jun 30, 2019, 05:52 PM »
The ownership seems very top heavy , no doubt all at the top will want their share . charity or no charity 
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Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #2 on: Jun 30, 2019, 09:42 PM »
WEL - Waverley Excursions Limited - the operating company - subsidiary of WSN - Why does this company need to exist?

Standard business practice to have an operating arm separate from the main business - if the one goes bust, it doesn't bring the other down with it.  In this case WNS would be treated as a holding copmany.

Here's the key people and the financial summary for WSN:

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC050789/WAVERLEY-STEAM-NAVIGATION-CO-LIMITED/companies-house-data#directors-and-secretaries

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC050789/WAVERLEY-STEAM-NAVIGATION-CO-LIMITED/financials


...and for the excursions arm:

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/sc070945/WAVERLEY-EXCURSIONS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC070945/WAVERLEY-EXCURSIONS-LIMITED/financials#key-financials


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Online Clydebuilt1971

Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #3 on: Jul 01, 2019, 08:44 AM »
Spot on Peter!

In 1974 when Waverley was offered to PSPS from Calmac a company called Waverley Steam Navigation (WSN) was setup to own and operate her on PSPS behalf with them as majority shareholder.

This was the case until 1981 when after the Gantocks incident in 1977 and a few very barren trading seasons WEL was set up as a separate company to operate the ship on a bareboat charter from WSN. This protected the ship from being seized if WEL went bust and sold to pay creditors as WSN recognised that the ship was very much at risk from this if they continued to operate her themselves. If WEL went bust well another company could be started and (to all intents and purposes) the reset button pushed.

The lines are a bit blurred these days due to Gift Aid - you have to be a registered charity to claim that and WEL are a commercial company.

So in summary.

WSN - Owners
PSPS - Majority Shareholders in WSN
WEL - Operate the vessel as a charter from WSN  - responsible for crewing, maintenance, overhauls, marketing, ticketing etc etc

It might seem complicated but I can see why that route was taken in the early 80s.

Cheers

Gav

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #4 on: Jul 01, 2019, 12:06 PM »
Thanks Gavin

So PSPS are majority shareholders in WSN (who else owns shares though?), but all their shares are mortgaged to the lottery? 

I can see why they did it too but it's confusing. 

Which body are we donating money to?
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Offline June Ingram

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Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #5 on: Jul 01, 2019, 02:48 PM »
I do think it would be an incentive to donate if people did know who exactly were receiving the funds and if all or only a percentage of the funds would be going to Waverley directly.
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Online Clydebuilt1971

Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #6 on: Jul 01, 2019, 04:05 PM »
Thanks Gavin

So PSPS are majority shareholders in WSN (who else owns shares though?), but all their shares are mortgaged to the lottery? 

I can see why they did it too but it's confusing. 

Which body are we donating money to?

Rob,

You are donating to WSN as it can be gift aided - a donation to WEL cannot.

The remaining shares were gifted to pivotal figures involved in getting the ship back into service in 1975 and those who have contributed heavily to her on-going operation in preservation since.

I don't thing shares were mortgaged to the HLF however I think the ship was - but given the 1st rebuild phase is months away from being 20yrs back I think any mortgages (assuming they existed) will be long expired.

Gav
« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2019, 04:09 PM by Clydebuilt1971 »

Online Clydebuilt1971

Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #7 on: Jul 01, 2019, 04:08 PM »
I do think it would be an incentive to donate if people did know who exactly were receiving the funds and if all or only a percentage of the funds would be going to Waverley directly.

Folks - I think this thread is taking an unfortunate direction which I know is not the intention of anyone on this forum however this could be read by some as an implication that the monies donated will not entirely go to the cause indicated which implies there may be fraudulent activity?

There may be numerous issues with the way the ship has been run over the years but I am confident that any money you may donate will go to the boiler appeal. After all she will never sail again without these items being renewed!

Gav

« Last Edit: Jul 01, 2019, 04:11 PM by Clydebuilt1971 »

Offline June Ingram

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Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #8 on: Jul 01, 2019, 04:19 PM »
Hi Gav -

I am sorry you read my inquiry in the mode that you did.  I did not in any way mean to suggest anything untoward is going on.

Just, in the USA, many organizations hire professional fund raisers to raise money for a cause, and upon investigation, only a very small percentage of the money raised goes to the cause.  Nothing fraudulent is involved.  Just after all the professional fund raisers are paid as well as consultants, etc, the poor recipient of said fund raising may only get a percentage in the single percentage. 

June
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Offline tramscape

Re: Who owns the Waverley - and key people involved
« Reply #9 on: Jul 06, 2019, 03:17 PM »
To all intents and purposes it is one organisation, split for various reasons. As indicated above, PSPS really didn't want the risk at first ... and later it was a financial construction to protect the charity from default. The PSPS's shareholding is relatively new and justified by the fact that they have given millions to WSN. Still, the plan is not to interfere in the direction of the ship even though they can appoint two directors (trustees) on to the WSN board

Nobody gets paid except a couple of directors of the operating company (WEL) and their employees. All the directors of PSPS and WSN are Trustees.

All money donated goes to the company (WSN) or to PSPS (if donated to them). Both charities have governance costs of course, irrespective of what donations they receive - but there are no outside agencies involved.  Whether the phone company takes a cut of donations by text I don't know.  On-line giving platform JustGiving takes a cut. Most donations are done directly to the charities so there is no cut.

WEL, although not a charity, is collecting Boiler Appeal donations on behalf of the charity (WSN) and Gift Aid is allowable.  All other donations go to the charities directly (WSN or PSPS, whichever you choose) and Gift Aid Applies

They tried to get Gift Aid on tickets in recent years - but that is a legal minefield and best left alone here !

The HLF have two floating charges over Waverley itself. Two phases of the millenium rebuild.  I think the second mortgage expires in 2025 (after 25 years). It is unlikely that the Lottery Fund would call in thier interest at any time, but Waverley is held on the Annual Report at an enormously high monetary value as the £ 8 million is depreciated over 25 years. This in theory puts WSN in enormous debt, because the ship itself is worth nothing
« Last Edit: Jul 06, 2019, 04:19 PM by tramscape »

 

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