Re-engining QM2

[Rob Lightbody]

I was wondering about this as I watched her smoke her way around the fjords and I read about the new LNG ships coming along now.

Will she need to be?  With an expected life that is longer than a run of the mill cruise ship, and the enormous expense of creating her in the first place, is it going to be worth re-engining her?   It would be a simpler job than for QE2, where they actually had to change the propulsion method and while for QE2 is was fuel costs that rose steeply through her life, for QM2 is it the environmental concerns too.

[Alex Tarry]

Environmental concerns are certainly becoming more of an issue to the cruise industry, in Geiranger in 2006, after a day at anchor QE2 had literally filled the fjord with smoke, very embarrassing! 

We live next to the proposed London cruise terminal in Greenwich and there is a lot of local opposition on the basis of environmental concerns, ships smoking all day, next to hundreds of flats and homes...

Interesting to see the new Virgin cruises focus on wellbeing too..good to see the industry move on from it's traditional "gain a pound a day" stance...welcome in my view...

[Thomas Hypher]

I was wondering about this as I watched her smoke her way around the fjords and I read about the new LNG ships coming along now.

Will she need to be?  With an expected life that is longer than a run of the mill cruise ship, and the enormous expense of creating her in the first place, is it going to be worth re-engining her?   It would be a simpler job than for QE2, where they actually had to change the propulsion method and while for QE2 is was fuel costs that rose steeply through her life, for QM2 is it the environmental concerns too.

I have wondered this too, a lot in recent months, but in the context of how Carnival are running QM2 (harder than ever). QM2 has got more "smokey" over the years and maybe this is indicative of how they are operating her (and the longer than ever periods between overhauls/refits too)? I seriously wonder if she will meet her 40 year design life all things said (Carnival have already broken even with her construction cost of course)...QE2 was never designed with a 40 year life in mind but I suspect people did start to wonder how long she'd last in the early 1980s, particularly after the Falklands, with the mechanical problems she had and then were relieved when Cunard announced the re-engining. Maybe we are at this stage with QM2 (and in roughly the same number of years too - by coincidence). Maybe Carnival are considering LNG for QM2 already? The next 10 years will be interesting regarding QM2 for sure, whatever happens.

I have read that unless ships switch to LNG fuel they will, for the most part, be limited to "slow steaming" (much like the container ships do these days) due to emissions restrictions (although I wonder if ships with the up-to-date exhaust scrubbers will not be affected much by these imminent rules)? We will see older cruise ships leave service because of this, and maybe we already are with the likes of the current Saga Cruises fleet being replaced by newbuilds in time for when the new emissions rules come into action - equally it could be coincidence though? I have heard Saga Sapphire (ex Europa etc etc) is on her last legs regardless and this, instead, could be the reason she's being replaced by one of their two newbuilds? One could say QM2 "slow steams" most of the time now anyway but as I said above, Carnival could be considering all this as we speak.

Sorry for the big blobs of text as I try to get my thoughts down through hammering the keyboard!

[skilly56]

Yes, the smoke is very noticeable (see attached).

However, I didn't ask anyone about it, but have seen numerous ships suddenly become very 'smokey' after converting to urea injection in the exhausts. The urea injection is required for the hi-sulphur-fuel burning engines to reduce the NOX emissions in areas like the Baltic, North Sea, Meddy, USCG waters, etc.
One vessel I know even has a 'Purple Haze' that follows her around as a result of urea injection.
Skilly

[Clydebuilt1971]

QM2 has Wartsila main oil engines - they are supplying the LNG propulsion packages for the new Calmac LNG ferries currently under construction.

I wonder if an existing engine can be retrofitted with the requisite equipment to allow them to become dual fuel - the only question that remains is the additional storage capacity required and also (at least in the case of LNG) the requirement to bunker more frequently as the consumption of LNG is higher than the equivalent power developed on oil.

Again just thinking out loud!

Gav

[June Ingram]

Any estimates on the cost of re-engining QM2 ?  And how and where it would be done ?

[Thomas Hypher]

Any estimates on the cost of re-engining QM2 ?  And how and where it would be done ?

Blohm+Voss in Hamburg likely could do it (where she normally goes for refits). Not sure she'd fit in Bremerhaven's lock system to allow her to go to Lloyd Werft like QE2 did? It would probably be a hole or holes in the hull job as recent diesel generator replacements have been (Norwegian Epic for example).

[Thomas Hypher]

Wonder what will happen to the gas turbines with the new emissions regulations and LNG coming along in the industry? Will they be removed in the coming years?

[Oceanic]

QM2 was, and is, a very environmentally friendly ship, especially when you take her age into account. However, I think there is some cause for concern with just how tight the emissions regulations are these days and with LNG looming.

A Re-engining in the next 10-20 years does seem likely; QM2 and the title of ‘The Last Ocean Liner’ she carries are immensely valuable to Cunard and Carnival and I doubt they’d let that go to waste by scrapping her. That said, just finding the time and resources to rebuild the old girl is going to be a challenge especially with how busy they like to keep her schedule.

[Michael Gallagher]

How environmentally friendly she was in 2004...

[June Ingram]

Many thanks, Michael !  Amazing information, and I had no idea QM2 was that environmentally friendly in 2004 !   

[Thomas Hypher]

A part of "QM2: Birth of a Legend" is given over to the environmental friendliness of the ship. If I recall correctly, there were quite senior people with the yard who's sole purpose was to ensure and check her environmental friendliness partly to stay within the terms in the contract.

[pete cain]

Yes, the smoke is very noticeable (see attached).

However, I didn't ask anyone about it, but have seen numerous ships suddenly become very 'smokey' after converting to urea injection in the exhausts. The urea injection is required for the hi-sulphur-fuel burning engines to reduce the NOX emissions in areas like the Baltic, North Sea, Meddy, USCG waters, etc.
One vessel I know even has a 'Purple Haze' that follows her around as a result of urea injection.
Skilly

 Ask VW , I think that the 'ADD BLUE' that one has to put into the diesels they now produce is the same stuff,   stand to be corrected (it's not cheap)

[Oceanic]

A part of "QM2: Birth of a Legend" is given over to the environmental friendliness of the ship. If I recall correctly, there were quite senior people with the yard who's sole purpose was to ensure and check her environmental friendliness partly to stay within the terms in the contract.

That documentary is perfect at show how Cunard was utterly set on future proofing QM2 to ensure she stood up to environmental surutiny even decades after she first set sail. Certain other measures were taken to ensure this, such as dispatching waste further out to sea than was required at the time and the option to toggle the gas turbines on/off depending on the situation.

[Rob Lightbody]

My point was based on the fact that on our fjords trip, I'm afraid she looked the very opposite of environmentally friendly... and public awareness of cruise ship pollution is growing rapidly. 

The truth sort of doesn't matter... for example after the VW emissions scandel, they tested lots of diesel cars in real life, on the roads.  The (unaltered) VWs were amongst the best, sometimes actually the best, but the public perception is that they were the worst and all diesels are terrible.

Lougborough university in the UK is doing some pioneering work that could make diesel much better, and can even be retro-fitted.  http://www.lboro.ac.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2017/may/world-first-technology-reduces-harmful-emissions/   and   http://www.lboro.ac.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2017/may/world-first-technology-reduces-harmful-emissions/