Author Topic: QE2 on Dry Land?  (Read 1696 times)

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Online Rob Lightbody

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QE2 on Dry Land?
« on: Nov 01, 2015, 08:00 PM »
I've just been reading about the Doulos being brought up onto dry land - https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,1117.msg75686.html#msg75686 (please post there for things Doulos-related) and it got me thinking something I'd thought in the past - that QE2 would look amazing on dry land, and it would make preservation easier too.  It would allow the substantial portion of her that remains hidden in the water, along with its great curves and features, to be appreciated.  Would the technique used to haul Doulos up onto dry land (winches and industrial air-bags) possibly work for QE2?  Would you be happy to see her beached like this? 
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Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #1 on: Nov 01, 2015, 08:02 PM »
I think... while it would solve one set of problems, it would create another.  A ship is designed to be supported by water.  Think back to the issues that the much smaller Cutty Sark and HMS Victory have with being plinthed.
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Offline June Ingram

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #2 on: Nov 02, 2015, 08:51 PM »
Does anyone know how to calculate the structural stress ratio of a floating ship to a dry-docked ship ?
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Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #3 on: Nov 02, 2015, 09:24 PM »
No idea, but a chap called Stephen Payne should have the know-how?

The thing about dry docking - for the typical short time it is being done for it shouldn't have any effect, but when it's for years and years, that's when hulls start to collapse under their own weight - while the cases I've already mentioned are well known and documented, I don't know if anyone has ever plinthed a metal ship for a long enough period to see what happens?

It's been done with submarines ( eg at Gosport and at the French Science Museum in Paris ) but I can't think of a single conventional metal ship thus.  The submarine hulls are stressed differently from a convenyional ship anyway.
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Offline Louis De Sousa

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #4 on: Nov 03, 2015, 07:31 AM »
I think QE2 is just big for such a project

Offline QE2forever

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #5 on: Nov 03, 2015, 10:32 AM »
I don't know if anyone has ever plinthed a metal ship for a long enough period to see what happens?

I think the only such ocean liner is the Lydia, ex-Moonta, in France:

http://portbarcares.com/en/inescapable/le-lydia

But, of course, much smaller than QE2.

Online skilly56

Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #6 on: Nov 03, 2015, 11:01 AM »
I believe she would be too heavy/long/wide for the rubber bag treatment.
Pulling her over the hump on a ramp would break her back. Her hull is not designed to be stressed like that over a central point.
Finding the machinery to pull the light ship weight of 37,932 tons (plus accumulated rust/dirt/sand and whatever else is still aboard) up a ramp would be interesting. To get her ashore in that fashion, you would have to build a set of greased ways similar to those she was originally launched from, drag her up, then gradually tip the hull level whilst still being supported full length. The ways would have to be built on very thick concrete foundations, as would be the final blocks she was positioned on.

The only option would be to find a derelict graving dock, renovate said dock, then float her in on even keel as normal. Same as for Cutty Sark.

Skilly
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2015, 09:21 PM by skilly56 »

Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #7 on: Nov 03, 2015, 07:56 PM »
I think the only such ocean liner is the Lydia, ex-Moonta, in France:

http://portbarcares.com/en/inescapable/le-lydia

But, of course, much smaller than QE2.

She's also not really plinthed is she?  In her case she was put into a dry dock or similar which was then filled in around her.  That does at least mean she'll be properly supported, but it also means her hull will be extremely vulnerable to corrosion because it will be neither permanently wet nor dry; that's asking for trouble long term.
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Offline Conay

Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #8 on: Nov 08, 2015, 05:03 PM »
I believe she would be too heavy/long/wide for the rubber bag treatment.
Pulling her over the hump on a ramp would break her back. Her hull is not designed to be stressed like that over a central point.
Finding the machinery to pull the light ship weight of 37,932 tons (plus accumulated rust/dirt/sand and whatever else is still aboard) up a ramp would be interesting. To get her ashore in that fashion, you would have to build a set of greased ways similar to those she was originally launched from, drag her up, then gradually tip the hull level whilst still being supported full length. The ways would have to be built on very thick concrete foundations, as would be the final blocks she was positioned on.

The only option would be to find a derelict graving dock, renovate said dock, then float her in on even keel as normal. Same as for Cutty Sark.

Skilly

Cute Sark is supported by metal beams under the ship (you can hold parties under there!). Though  suspect that's only possible because the ship is no longer holding cargo.

Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #9 on: Nov 08, 2015, 05:14 PM »
Most of those beams have only been put in place at the recent refurbishment and have been specially designed to replicate as far as possible the support of water*; she wasn't nearly as well supported previously.


*Obviously we are talking about a relatively small and lightweight hull here, not something weighing tens of thousands of tonnes...



Quote
Cute Sark

The best ever marine autocorrect adjustment? :)
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Offline pete cain

Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #10 on: Nov 08, 2015, 09:35 PM »
They've done it with Brunel's ss Great Britain- in dock in Bristol

Online Bob C.

Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #11 on: Nov 09, 2015, 11:45 AM »
Engineering-wise it should work.  Hydrodynamic forces tend to push the sides and bottom of a ship inward when floating (design condition) but on land the keel is made stable with blocks; however, the sides will tend to push out.  I'm wondering if the structure can be stablized with supports at or just below the waterline and still maintain a good look.

Offline Twynkle

Re: QE2 on Dry Land?
« Reply #12 on: Nov 18, 2015, 09:23 PM »
Floating her into a dry dock, this does sound good. (Does this count as 'dry land'?)
And then onto blocks and made true with props - and partially fill with water.
Like Peter's comments, thinking about whether it could work over a long period of time....
The weight of her superstructure etc, and the size of her beam in a gale etc
I remember thinking whenever I saw her, just how very big she is...
(Earlier on, I made enquiries in various places regarding the availability of dry-docks - to no avail as they are all in use!)

Bob and Skilly- might it be possible / effective to have hydraulic 'sort of' struts/ supports / lifts' - bit like crutches, fixed in a very few places along the hull - that could hold her weight? 
There are definitely ships around the world that get refitted actually on dry land - expect you have seen them too - they look a bit uncomfortable out of water, don't they!

« Last Edit: Nov 19, 2015, 10:21 AM by Twynkle »
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