QE2 Technical Questions

[Andrew Johnson]

I have a few Technical Questions Re the QE2 which i am hoping people may be able to assist in answering. as i am trying to build a an actuate fact file on QE2 for my personal collection.

QE2 Technical Questions:

1: How many engines were used in warm layup in Dubai ?

2: How many engines were used in Hotel mode layup in port per 24Hrs ?

3: Is the following information correct:

• IFO 380 Capacity = 4,380 Tons
• MOD Capacity = 207 Tons

4: Fuel Burn (Per 24Hrs) & Engines Required at various speeds:

10 Knots =
20 Knots =
25 Knots =
28.5 Knots =

5: How many oil fired boilers does QE2 have ? and what is the fuel burn per boiler in 24hrs ?

6: if in warm layup do you still need the Oil fired boilers or is exhaust boiler enough ?

7: Also does any body know what the minimum crewing requirements were for a ship of this size ? (No Passengers)

Many thanks

Andrew

[Roy Warrender]

Hi Andrew
I have a further Question In a previous post mention was made to auxiliary engines (Pipes protruding from the stern) if these are usable how much power could they generate and would this be sufficient if under tow
In answer to the question about engines, I might be wrong But I thought they are Olympus Jet Turbofans similar to those used by aircraft if so oil fired boilers would not be required

[Graham Taylor]

I'm not aware of any other engines other than the 9 MAN diesel generators running on Heavy Fuel Oil which supply power to the two electric motors connected to the props. I am under the impression that apart from a couple of oil fired boilers to heat the HFO before going to the MAN engines and heat water for hot water there haven't been boilers since her steam days. There are nine heat exchangers attached to the MAN engine exhaust which supply supplementary heat for HFO heating and Hotel Services water heating.

[Roy Warrender]

I stand corrected about the engines, Do you have any info on the ratings of generator sets mentioned in the post about the the tubes protruding from the stern

[skilly56]

Re the questions below, see the attached PDF files.

Before 1987, QE2 carried 6425 tonnes of bunkers.
After 1987 she carried 4640 tonnes (HFO & MDO combined), in 18 HFO Tanks and 2 MDO tanks.

In Dubai, only one engine/generator was running at any time except for load changeover purposes. Total load would only have been 2-4 MW max in the layup situation. With a full load of passengers, ie., all services running, the load was about 8-9 MW.

In the PDF text it states the main engine weight as 220 tonnes each (excluding the 2 tonne flywheel), so how did the CE blurb sheet stay so wrong for so long? Even in 2008 it was still stating the engine weight as 120 tonnes each.

Re the questions on Speeds/Number of engines, I have posted this info already - under 'The Ship - Technical' maybe. The info is from a sheet stuck on a wheelhouse panel. I'll post it if I find it again - FOUND IT - see below, plus Minimum Safe Manning Cert.
Re minimum speed - there used to be a notice on the bridge stating that the minimum speed was 48% pitch on three engines to avoid vibration

Roy, I think the two 'exhaust pipes' you are referring to are actually on the QM2, as are the gas turbines.

Skilly

[skilly56]

And, the chief engineer's blurb sheet. The stated engine weight is only 100 tonnes out.
I do suspect this sheet may have been compiled by persons other than the C.E.

The 380 t/day consumption at 28.5 knots is for seven engines running at 85% MCR, so each engine drinks approx. 57 t/day. Relate that to the number of engines required on the PMS/Speed chart in the previous post and you will get your answers.

Re the last statement, that engineer's wear purple in memory of the Titanic engineers (who all went down with the ship), there is still much debate about this. I have now worn purple epaulettes for 46 years (Bloody Hell - must be time to retire!) and still haven't heard a factual answer to the question.

Skilly

[Roy Warrender]

Hi Skilly
You mention The Paxman Generators in another Post are not  the pipes I mentioned for these
If QE2 was to be towed would the Paxman Generators  be available to provide limited power

[Andrew Johnson]

Good Morning Skilly56,

Many thanks for this information, that you have posted ,

However regarding the information that you have posted i have the following questions for you.

1: How did you arrive at the figure 57 Tons per day per engine for 28.5 Knots as i have worked it out as follows and have come to two different figures

Method 1:

380 Tons (Per 24Hrs) Divided by 7 Engines = 54.2 Tons Approximately per 24 Hours per engine

Method 2:

380 Tons (Per 24Hrs) Divided by 9 Engines = 42.2 Tons Approximately Per 24 Hours per engine

2: On the "Sailing Power Manager Settings Doc" what do the the figures under each of the following represent.

- Power
- Drops
- Adds

Many thanks

Andrew

[skilly56]

Hi Andrew,

The 380 tpd figure is an average from actual experience, and probably averaged over a month's consumptions from the daily ROB figures, so would include the auxiliary boilers if they were in use. Also, as the hull gets dirtier the consumption goes up, so one has the choice of either burning more fuel daily or slowing down to prevent the consumption rising. However, with QE2, you can put another DG on to retain the speed for scheduled requirements, but again the consumption goes up.
Daily fuel consumptions vary continuously - the current can be against you, adverse wind & weather require more power to maintain schedule, port visits lead to a drop in consumption during standbys and manoeuvring, etc, etc.
Very rarely is one day's consumption the same as the day before - the total varies continuously.

The rated consumption on 9 engines is 440 tonnes per day at 100% MCR - this is a trials only figure.

The 'POWER', 'DROPS' & 'ADDS' values are all in MW, and are the total MW on both shafts. The combined design MAX of both PEMS when new was 2 x 44 MW = 88MW, but they have never been run that hard (well, maybe once, when Rob was on board during the first sea trials after the conversion).

The 'SPEED' column states a given speed (with 'X' number of engines on load to the left). The 'POWER' column states the total KW required to maintain that speed.

Say you are doing 28 knots on 7 engines and requiring 59.7 MW at the PEMS to do this speed. You then want to reduce speed a bit, but you have to know what MW value you have to reduce the combined shaft power to so that one DG will drop out of loop. So you look at the graph and it says you must reduce your combined shaft MWs down to 46 MW before the PMS will drop one DG off the propulsion loop. After the drop-off of the DG, and once everything has stabilised in the power delivery department, the combined shaft power can very gently be raised back up to 49 MW, at which point the ship should be travelling around 26.5 knots, depending on hull/propeller condition/weather, etc.

The 'ADDS' column works the same way, but are the figures for when putting another DG on load after it has reached synchronous speed.

Skilly

[Twynkle]

Hi Andrew - Welcome on board!
Your queries are intriguing.

( Re. Roy Warrender's 's post:
Here's the link to the stern pipes on QM2
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,6717.msg70901.html#msg70901  )

Skilly - Re 'Seeing Purple!'
Does this help!
'There is no truth...'
http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and-ships/facts/faqs/general/did-engineer-officers-in-the-royal-and-merchant-navy-wear-purple-cloth-between-the-rank-stripes-on-their-uniform-as-a-sign-of-mourning-for-the-engineers-who-died-in-the-titanic
From the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich!!
ATVB
Rosie

[Andrew Johnson]

Hi Skilly,

thanks for confirmation, i now think that i understand. please correct me if i have gone of the rails so to speak....

For allowances sake lets allow 400 Tons per 24 Hours running at 28.5 Knots + Full Hotel Services & allowing for ships condition underneath Etc.

for 28.5 Knots + Full Hotel Service you need 8 M/E based on bridge chart at standard load of 85% (I understand that you can use 7 but at a higher load) you will use approximately 50 Tons Per 24Hrs per Main Engine.

Formular = 400 Tons Divide by 8 = Approx 50 Tons per 24 Hour per ME

Do you agree with this ?

Many thanks

Andrew



This allows for 28.5 Knots & Hotel Service - do you agree.... ?

[skilly56]

The 28 knots was normally achieved on 7 DGs unless steaming in really warm sea temperatures (33^oC + in tropics, Indian Ocean, South China Sea, warm currents, etc), when another DG might be loaded in order to reduce operating temperatures on the other machines (as was necessary on the last trip to Dubai).
Normally, at 28 knots, 1 main engine would be down for survey and the other on standby.

The approx. 9 MW for ships electrical load was taken off the 10,000 volt main supply bus from the generators via transformers.
7 x 10.5 MW = 73.5 MW available on 7 engines but only 59.7 MW of this goes to the PEMS, leaving nearly 14 MW available for ship's load.

Back to the daily fuel consumptions - sometimes large daily variations can also arise from faulty or U/S fuel tank gauges, vessel in rough weather so the tank dips are a bit variable. Everything comes in to it.

Bye the bye - what are you needing the info for?

Skilly

[Andrew Johnson]

Skilly56,

i am creating a personal fact file on all great liners.

i have a vast amount of information on famous ships throughout the Globe. but QE2 has been the biggest challenge thus far.

Also, i am about to give up on QE2 Fuel Burn Figures for QE2.

As the information that you have so kindly provided is not matching to potential known facts and that simple matter of the fact is that i trust your information ... and i am getting confused.com

Based on our discussed information, i still have not been able to work out how the ship can apparently sail for 30 days at 20 knots using 4 main engines.

it simply will run out of fuel ..........

as 4ME X 50 Tons Each = 200 Tons per day X 30 Days = 6000 Tons - Ships out of Gas..... LOL

this ship is confusing ....... !!!!!!!

Thanks for all your help and information i am very grateful

Kindest Regards

Andrew

[skilly56]

Andrew,

You gave me some head-scratching as well.

But, I can see what happened I think. When the ship was a steamer, she carried 6425 tonnes of HFO.
Someone has done the daily consumption/range using that figure, which does give nearly 30 days
steaming at 20 knots on a daily consumption of 217 tonnes/day.

However, if you look at the table of 'BEFORE' and 'AFTER' figures at the top of page 2 of the info sheets
I posted, you will see that the total bunkers carried after conversion to a motor ship is now only 4640 tonnes.
At 217 tonnes/day (20 knots), she now only has an endurance of 22 days (burning some MDO as well). 

The steam to diesel conversion was theoretically supposed to drop the fuel consumption by 250 tonnes/day at 28.5 knots.

The engines are actually designed to operate at 428 rpm.
In QE2, the engines operate at 400 rpm, which is the synchronous speed for the 60Hz alternators.
So, the nearest true consumption figure is the daily log figure, which is 380 tonnes/day for 7 engines at presumably 85% MCR, and may or may not include 1 or both of the boilers operating. However, the facts on the C/E's fact sheet have proved surprisingly wrong in the past
The exhaust gas economisers were getting pretty stuffed towards the end (the Lloyd's CSM sheets had plenty of red on them), so the auxiliary boilers were required to do affair bit of work.

Skilly

[Andrew Johnson]

Hi Skilly56,

Many thanks for your confirmation, i am glad that i am not losing the plot just yet....

According to Rob the ship used approximately 11 MT Per 24Hrs in Layup in Dubai, and between 30 - 40 MT Per 24Hrs in Hotel Layup, so the average for Hotel Layup is 35 MT per 24 Hrs take the middle point.

So if in layup you are using 35 Tons per 24Hrs (Per Single Engine on a load of 9MW).

You then Divide 35MT By 4ME = 8.75 Tons +  35 Tons = 43.75 or 44 Tons + Allowances for extra Load = 5 Tons = 49 Tons per main engine (Allowing 1TPH per engine for Boiler Allowance) i have calculated the following....

would you agree with my estimates on the following fuel burn.

4 Main Engines @ 20 Knots sailing = 200 Tons per day = 50MT per 24Hrs per engine. (Including Boiler Allowance)

7 Main Engines @ 28 Knots Sailing = 350 Tons Per day = 50MT per 24Hrs per engine (Including Boiler Allowance)

Also Two further questions:

1: is any additional pages to your QE2 Engine Conversion Document or is it only 4 pages ?

2: Does you or anybody know what the actual MDO Tank Capacities are on QE2 ?

Many thanks

Andrew