Are there still liners on the Atlantic?

[Adam Hodson]

Makes sense economically - although I also hope they don't spoil her beautiful profile.

I really hope they don't spoil QM2 (when adding extra cabins), she's one of the only transatlantic liners still in service!

[Rob Lightbody]

I really hope they don't spoil her, she's one of the only transatlantic liners still in service!

She's the only transatlantic liner in transatlantic service... which other transatlantic liners are still sailing?  (might make an interesting topic if we don't already have it)

[Hank Hargrove]

None as far as I am aware. However I wasn't sure if there were some other old/smaller liners around, though I'm pretty sure they're all out of service (Kungsholm etc.)

There are several: the Funchal, Athena (ex-Stockholm), and Marco Polo to name a few.


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[Hank Hargrove]

She's the only transatlantic liner in transatlantic service... which other transatlantic liners are still sailing?  (might make an interesting topic if we don't already have it)

Marco Polo, Athena, Funchal...any others? There are also several liners still sailing that were used on other routes.


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[Peter Mugridge]

There are several: the Funchal, Athena (ex-Stockholm), and Marco Polo to name a few.

Were any of these TransAtlantic, though, as that was what the question was about?

[Adam Ilgin]

Were any of these TransAtlantic, though, as that was what the question was about?

The Azores, (up until 2012 Athena) was the MS Stockholm which ran from Sweden to New York. In '56 it collided with Andrea Doria.

[Hank Hargrove]

The Azores, (up until 2012 Athena) was the MS Stockholm which ran from Sweden to New York. In '56 it collided with Andrea Doria.

Quite true. I still call it Athena as I haven't gotten used to the name Azores yet.


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[Hank Hargrove]

Were any of these TransAtlantic, though, as that was what the question was about?

All of them are.

Athena/Azores=Ex Stockholm of Swedish America

Marco Polo used to be a Soviet liner on the transatlantic route.

The Funchal was, and still is, a Portuguese liner.


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[Peter Mugridge]

So the genre isn't quite extinct yet, then. 

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

She's the only transatlantic liner in transatlantic service... which other transatlantic liners are still sailing?

Of course, this depends on how you interpret the word "liner". If interpreted the traditional way, this means a ship which regularly and predictably services a certain route (or line).

On the Atlantic, QM2 is to my mind the only passenger ship that could lay claim to the title "liner" today, although even this is not sure, as she keeps leaving her route to do cruises as well.

There may well be plenty of cargo liners on the transatlantic route though (although the main cargo lines nowadays are between Europa and the Far East).

[Adam Hodson]

Of course, this depends on how you interpret the word "liner".

I'd interpret the word "Liner" to mean 'Transatlantic Express Passenger Liners.'

[CAP]

Of course, this depends on how you interpret the word "liner". If interpreted the traditional way, this means a ship which regularly and predictably services a certain route (or line).

On the Atlantic, QM2 is to my mind the only passenger ship that could lay claim to the title "liner" today, although even this is not sure, as she keeps leaving her route to do cruises as well.

There may well be plenty of cargo liners on the transatlantic route though (although the main cargo lines nowadays are between Europa and the Far East).

It is most definately in the interpretation.  The definition above needs to be expanded to include "a passenger service" and "across an ocean".

The inclusion of the latter means that short-crossings are ruled out (I.e. Cross-channel services) although Cunard did often refer to the Queens transatlantic service as "the big ferry"!  It is also worth noting the transatlantic was not the only line voyage route.  South Africa and Australia are two which immediately come to mind, (QE2 even did a number of South African "line voyages" around the millennium.

Because line voyages were passenger services this precluded cargo operations, even Cunard's Media & Parthia which were to all intents and purposes cargo vessels nevertheless offered scheduled passenger services across the Atlantic.

[Twynkle]

Yes CAP - I agree with you, although I'm not so sure about the distance needing to be an ocean!
Isn't it about a previously agreed distance between two specific points (there and back) - and advertised as such?

Maybe we could also add that a ship (belonging to a shipping line), becomes a Liner when it has been built with the ability and capacity to reach across an agreed distance within in a specific, previously agreed time. In this case it's the Atlantic Ocean - As you mention,  it could also be other oceans - for example, the Union Castle Line ships and other Lines also ran Liners across other Seas didn't they?!
There's much more about the definition of the term 'liner' here, via the search engine!
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,430.msg21325.html#msg21325

To keep to the Topic - interesting to note that the Officers and Crew etc all refer to QV as This Liner! - This Beautiful Liner in fact! It was very difficult not to say something, as she does cross the Atlantic....however, a challenge at the time would have seemed a bit impudent!

[Peter Mugridge]

I would consider a line voyage to be a timetabled regular passenger service other than a ferry service - we need to be careful over the "ferry" aspect because some ferries operate quite significant distances don't they?!

Returning to the original subject, are any of those surviving servicable liners other than the QM2 express liners?  Come to think of it, I'm not sure what the cut off point is above which speed a liner becomes an express liner...

[Hank Hargrove]

So the genre isn't quite extinct yet, then. 

Not yet. And unless the QM2 is replaced (hopefully there will be another), the genre will still be alive for some time.


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[Hank Hargrove]

I would consider a line voyage to be a timetabled regular passenger service other than a ferry service - we need to be careful over the "ferry" aspect because some ferries operate quite significant distances don't they?!

Returning to the original subject, are any of those surviving servicable liners other than the QM2 express liners?  Come to think of it, I'm not sure what the cut off point is above which speed a liner becomes an express liner...

I think the QM2 would be the only one to match that criteria.


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[Hank Hargrove]

Yes CAP - I agree with you, although I'm not so sure about the distance needing to be an ocean!
Isn't it about a previously agreed distance between two specific points (there and back) - and advertised as such?

Maybe we could also add that a ship (belonging to a shipping line), becomes a Liner when it has been built with the ability and capacity to reach across an agreed distance within in a specific, previously agreed time. In this case it's the Atlantic Ocean - As you mention,  it could also be other oceans - for example, the Union Castle Line ships and other Lines also ran Liners across other Seas didn't they?!
There's much more about the definition of the term 'liner' here, via the search engine!
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,430.msg21325.html#msg21325

To keep to the Topic - interesting to note that the Officers and Crew etc all refer to QV as This Liner! - This Beautiful Liner in fact! It was very difficult not to say something, as she does cross the Atlantic....however, a challenge at the time would have seemed a bit impudent!

I agree with what you all have said.
 A liner is to get from point A to point B as an airplane would.


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[Hank Hargrove]

The Azores, (up until 2012 Athena) was the MS Stockholm which ran from Sweden to New York. In '56 it collided with Andrea Doria.

I've heard the Stockholm was quite a roller back then.


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[CAP]

Yes CAP - I agree with you, although I'm not so sure about the distance needing to be an ocean!
Isn't it about a previously agreed distance between two specific points (there and back) - and advertised as such?

A couple of things a line voyage is not a return journey but a single passage. Distance and not speed is the main differentiator, in the context of a line voyage a fast ferry from Newcastle to Gothenburg is not the same as slow journey to Cape Town, the latter is a line voyage, the former a ferry service.  The "Express" strapline is simply a representation of a faster passage but much heralded by shipping line marketing departments as the true essence of Ocean travel.

Additionally, the "line" I understand, comes from the track between two ports as measured by a piece of string across a globe.

[Peter Mugridge]

Question - if you use half a cruise as a means of getting from A to B one way, as we did on our honeymoon by using QE2 to get from Southampton to Civitavecchia in order to fly from Rome to New York ( after our TA was turned into a cruise after booking! ), would that count as a line voyage?

[CAP]

Simply no, why because it is or was not a regular, scheduled passenger service.

[jdl]

It is most definately in the interpretation.  The definition above needs to be expanded to include "a passenger service" and "across an ocean".

The inclusion of the latter means that short-crossings are ruled out (I.e. Cross-channel services) although Cunard did often refer to the Queens transatlantic service as "the big ferry"!  It is also worth noting the transatlantic was not the only line voyage route.  South Africa and Australia are two which immediately come to mind, (QE2 even did a number of South African "line voyages" around the millennium.

Because line voyages were passenger services this precluded cargo operations, even Cunard's Media & Parthia which were to all intents and purposes cargo vessels nevertheless offered scheduled passenger services across the Atlantic.

The big ferry is very apt, especially as you could catch one of the queens to Cherbourg for you holiday to France back in the day

[Peter Mugridge]

Simply no, why because it is or was not a regular, scheduled passenger service.

Sorry, I should have worded it better - I meant: "Does it mean we effectively used it as a line voyage?"

You are quite right that the voyage itself was not a line voyage per se, but we did use it purely as an A to B means of transportation.

[Hank Hargrove]

Here is an article on the Azores.

http://maritimematters.com/2014/06/azores-ex-stockholm-chartered-for-2015/

[Alan Snelson]

What an odd looking ship! The proportions look all wrong to my eye and I almost think she merits a place in the 'isn't she beautiful' topic https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,244.0.html

[Adam Ilgin]

She was much better looking when she was Stockholm.

[Hank Hargrove]

She was much better looking when she was Stockholm.

I agree. She still looks nice on the inside and the outside isn't that bad compared to some of the other cruise ships out there.

[Adam Hodson]

She was much better looking when she was Stockholm.

According to Wikipedia, Azores (Stockholm of 1948) is currently in refit.

[June Ingram]

What an odd looking ship! The proportions look all wrong to my eye and I almost think she merits a place in the 'isn't she beautiful' topic https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,244.0.html

She did indeed look better as the Stockholm.  She looks almost like a ferry.