Author Topic: Ships in stormy seas  (Read 18237 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Jem

Re: Rough Seas and Mishaps
« Reply #45 on: Mar 06, 2010, 07:51 AM »
The clean of the damaged windows


To have those windows so close to the bow is mad! Who on earth passed her fit for sea? The frames look far to flimsy.

Offline Louis De Sousa

  • QE2 Crew member
  • Queens Grill Diner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3837
  • Total likes: 3823
  • QE2 The Greatest Ship Ever
Re: Rough Seas and Mishaps
« Reply #46 on: Mar 06, 2010, 04:00 PM »

Here you can see the damage and the clean up

https://www.flickr.com/photos/photojordicom/4408889933/sizes/l/

Louis

Offline pete cain

Giant waves
« Reply #47 on: Feb 02, 2011, 09:05 PM »
I think you call it freeboard, am sure to be corrected if wrong, but here's the folly of building too far foreward & sending ships out to sea     http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/03/03/cruise.ship.wave/index.html?hpt=T2http://, the one to look at is 'total chaos on cruise ship' (top lhs link) . This is a modern 'big' ship, 'bout 1m 24s in , shows it all..........
« Last Edit: Feb 02, 2011, 09:24 PM by pete cain »

Offline Rob Lightbody

  • Administrator
  • Queens Grill Diner
  • *****
  • Posts: 12241
  • Total likes: 15596
  • Helping to Keep The Legend Alive
    • Rob Lightbody dot com
Re: Giant waves
« Reply #48 on: Feb 02, 2011, 09:31 PM »
Rosie, as usual, had this hot off the press as it happened!  https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,48.msg18441.html#msg18441
Passionate about QE2's service life for 40 years and creator of this website.  I have worked in IT for 28 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #49 on: Feb 15, 2012, 01:29 PM »

Sailing round Cape Horn! The Mount Everest of the sailing world, they say...

Did I hear it right? Were they really doing 35 knots?
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2023, 08:26 PM by Isabelle Prondzynski »

Online Lynda Bradford

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #50 on: Feb 15, 2023, 09:45 AM »
Sad to read recent reports about Cyclone Gabrielle causing damage and loss of life in New Zealand.

A question for our ship's crew and those with knowledge of navigating - what evasive action can a ship's captain or navigator take to avoid a Cyclone? Is it just as easy as navigating a new route or are ships required to keep with a predetermined route?  Increasing speed to get out of the area seems like a good option, but is it as easy as just saying "full speed ahead"? The Chief Engineer would need to be involved in the decision, especially if the decision would use more fuel.
I was proud to be involved with planning QE2's 50 year conference in September 2017 in Clydebank
www.qe2event.com

Offline Rod

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #51 on: Feb 15, 2023, 01:24 PM »
Lynda, it depends,depends,depends.
This kind of thing, depending on the urgency would normally come up at the morning meeting. All departments are involved. ChEng not so much because of fuel but to batten down the hatches, secure any loose gear, plan maintenance accordingly. Hotel dept. do we have to change the menu? Get different food up from the stores, sandwich meat instead of roasts. put the vomit bags out by the elevators, get the sawdust up from the hold, tell the pantries to secure their gear. Tell the bars to secure their stuff.Theoretically it should always be secure,. But, sometimes things get overlooked. Warn them they might get loads of room service calls. Doctors , so they can load up the syringes and make room in the safe for all that extra money. Deck Dept. make sure deck chairs etc are secure, boats are secure, all of their stores are secure. Secure pianos in the public rooms.
Can you avoid the storm, depends. How fast is it moving? If you alter course will you be moving int something worse like ice bergs? Or even land? Will changing your course do you any good. One trip Doug Ridley altered course about 6 or 7 times, but, so did the hurricane. That was in 72 or 73 I believe. 3 or 4 grand pianos damaged , a few , broken legs and other injuries, 4 or 5 windows on Upper and Quarter deck popped out. About $150,000 worth of crockery broken. Stem of the ship moved backwards about an inch when we fell off a wave!
So many things come into it.

Online Lynda Bradford

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #52 on: Feb 15, 2023, 03:51 PM »
Thanks Rod for sharing your thoughts and experience of action taken when the ship is facing storm conditions
I was proud to be involved with planning QE2's 50 year conference in September 2017 in Clydebank
www.qe2event.com

Online Thomas Hypher

  • Queens Grill Diner
  • *****
  • Posts: 2862
  • Total likes: 5531
  • QE2 started a dream to go to sea - now a reality!
Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #53 on: Feb 16, 2023, 04:11 PM »
Sad to read recent reports about Cyclone Gabrielle causing damage and loss of life in New Zealand.

A question for our ship's crew and those with knowledge of navigating - what evasive action can a ship's captain or navigator take to avoid a Cyclone? Is it just as easy as navigating a new route or are ships required to keep with a predetermined route?  Increasing speed to get out of the area seems like a good option, but is it as easy as just saying "full speed ahead"? The Chief Engineer would need to be involved in the decision, especially if the decision would use more fuel.

We try to avoid heading into or being anywhere near a Tropical Revolving Storm (a TRS - the type of storm that Hurricanes, Typhoons, and Cyclones are) in the first place (prevention being the best cure so to speak) but if we are caught up right in the middle or just in front of one, the bridge team will try to place and keep the ship in the navigable semicircle of the TRS and definitely out of the dangerous quadrant - to do with the increased severity of the wind and swells in that dangerous quadrant as well as the typical path of a TRS which changes depending on whether you're in the Northern or Southern hemisphere.

The goal is to stay hove to but with steerage to keep the wind in the right place on the ship's bow in the TRS's rear area (behind the dangerous quadrant) for any ship (even QE2) to allow the TRS to move ahead and track away.
The other goal if previously in the path of the TRS or otherwise being caught in it in the dangerous quadrant without being able to overtake it such as on a slow oil tanker is to get into the navigable semicircle of the TRS if possible as the winds will drive the ship out of the path of the TRS in the navigable semicircle as opposed to into the path of the TRS in the dangerous quadrant.
I suspect QE2 was in Hurricane Luis's rear area when she was hit by the 90+ foot waves in September 1995 given she was hove to according to accounts but still making way enough for steerage into the prevailing conditions with the wind on her starboard bow otherwise even she could've been in trouble given the severe conditions.

Overtaking the storm from within, if that's even possible given the severe conditions is definitely not what to do as far as we've been taught. One also has to keep an eye on whether the wind is backing or veering as the ship's bow has to be placed according to either regardless of location in the TRS and dependent on whether it's a Northern or Southern hemisphere TRS.

If caught in a TRS we'd be on hand steering with the ABs taking turns on the helm matching with the OoWs navigational watchkeeping schedule and we wouldn't be using the autopilot given it could be overwhelmed by the particularly severe conditions depending on it's settings and operating parameters/limits and could lose control of the ship's steerage with other consequences when it then attempts to get the ship back on course with a series of major helm inputs, such as stalling the main engine on an oil tanker or ripping the rudder off it's stock given the forces involved on a fully deflected rudder given maximum practicable speed is required within the different quadrants and semicircles of the TRS apart from being hove to in the rear quadrant area of the TRS. The human touch, feel for the ship, and experience being better and safer in this situation.
Maximum practicable speed being influenced by the severe conditions (the TRS will be working against the ship a lot), main engine operating parameters (avoiding overheating and overspeed etc), and whether the ship's bow is up to the amount of pounding (slamming) at a given speed in the severe conditions given it's the end of the ship that'll be taking the brunt of the TRS.

Increasing speed to overtake a TRS bearing down on your position would've likely been possible on a ship as fast as QE2 given the TRS's ground track speed isn't usually that fast, and the metrological signs of an approaching TRS are quite identifiable, quite apart from the detailed weather forecasting that is available as long as it's up-to-date to avoid the case of SS El Faro.

Alternative routes to avoid the TRS will be suggested within the bridge team and taken if necessary. The passage plan will be altered and the monitored route (the path the ship is navigated along) will then be updated on the ECDIS (Electronic Chart Display Information System) these days. Commercial pressures take a back seat to TRSs as ships are lost otherwise along with their whole crews as successfully abandoning ship and surviving the elements doesn't usually pan out very well in a TRS.
In normal circumstances the monitored route on an ECDIS can be tweaked quite often for many reasons such as a bunkering port not being confirmed out of several options until a couple of days before the end of crossing an ocean.

We wouldn't make port in any area likely to be affected significantly by the TRS, but we would seek the shelter islands can offer while hove to if reachable and appropriate.

If we encounter or suspect a TRS (or any storm above Beaufort Force 10 - including low pressures) that doesn't already have warnings out for it from other ships in the vicinity or from the likes of NOAA or the Met Office we are required by SOLAS to report it in detail, also being required to keep giving updates on it while remaining in it's vicinity.
« Last Edit: Feb 16, 2023, 04:24 PM by Thomas Hypher »
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2 in her new life, in Dubai, in January 2020 and August 2022.

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #54 on: Feb 17, 2023, 08:26 AM »
Thank you, Rod and Thomas, for this fascinating (and vital!) information. These are times when the ship and her crew are severely tested, and all have to play their part together.

I can add that the hotel crew also have their role to play. My mother does not get seasick, so she wandered to the restaurant for her breakfast. But her legs were not strong, and she was struggling with the motion of the ship.

Seeing this, the MaƮtre d' rushed to her side and offered his arm to guide her safely to her table... where I was absent that morning. Kindness is a much appreciated quality, even in times of stormy seas.

Online Lynda Bradford

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #55 on: Feb 17, 2023, 10:01 AM »
Thank-you Thomas for your very detailed explanation, which helped me understand a little about the decisions that are taken when the Bridge team are faced with a TRS.  Interesting to learn that different decisions would be taken for Northern or Southern Hemisphere TRS.

I found this web page with an explanation of the effects of Tropical Cyclones on ships.  There are a couple of diagrams that helped me understand your explanation of the dangerous semi-circle and the navigable semi-circle. 

https://www.stormgeo.com/products/s-suite/s-routing/articles/the-effects-of-tropical-cyclones-on-shipping/
 
I was proud to be involved with planning QE2's 50 year conference in September 2017 in Clydebank
www.qe2event.com

Offline Mauretania1907

Re: Ships in stormy seas
« Reply #56 on: Apr 11, 2023, 05:26 AM »
People in the West Coast settlements just out of Auckland are still recovering from Cyclone Gabrielle. The settlements of Piha, Kerikeri are still off-limits to non-residents. Yesterday I went to Huia, which is just inside the Manakau Harbour and I noticed several repaired slips on my way there, covered with plastic so that more rocks and dirt don't fall on to the road.
If anyone wants to see what storms are 'available'  :o in the southern seas, read some books about the round the world non-stop yacht races, such as the Vendee Globe, the Whitbread races, also others which go through the Southern Ocean around the Cape of Good Hope, Cape leiwen and the Horn. Almost anybody who sails around the Horn in a yacht will have a story to tell! Even sailing around the South Island (of New Zealand) especially in winter, will give a rocky ride with perhaps a knockdown or if especially unlucky, a pitchpoling.

 

Favourite Liners and Ships

Started by Adam HodsonBoard Sea Shanties

Replies: 56
Views: 17261
Last post Jul 07, 2020, 04:32 PM
by Anubhav Mitra
The Beirut explosion and the ships affected by it

Started by Isabelle ProndzynskiBoard Sea Shanties

Replies: 1
Views: 491
Last post Aug 07, 2020, 10:42 PM
by Isabelle Prondzynski
Tall ships weekend - roll call

Started by Rob LightbodyBoard Past Events

Replies: 21
Views: 8388
Last post Jul 08, 2011, 07:40 AM
by Lynda Bradford
Ships in Kotor

Started by Bruce NichollsBoard Sea Shanties

Replies: 23
Views: 8939
Last post Apr 10, 2018, 05:37 PM
by Bruce Nicholls
Have ships managed to get their own crews back?

Started by Rob LightbodyBoard Sea Shanties

Replies: 6
Views: 564
Last post Jun 15, 2022, 03:33 AM
by skilly56