Poll

Do you agree with the Cunard fleet re-flagging to Bermuda?

Yes
0 (0%)
No
50 (94.3%)
Undecided
1 (1.9%)
Don't care
2 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 40

Author Topic: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL  (Read 5047 times)

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Online Rob Lightbody

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Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« on: Oct 19, 2011, 07:40 PM »
Do you agree with the imminent re-flagging of the entire Cunard ship under the flag of Bermuda?

For the first time in 171 years, Cunard will have no British-registered ships.

Advantages for Cunard - different terms & conditions for the crew, lower pay requirements and, of course, the weddings.

For more arguments and discussion see the topic here - https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,3630

Please also, if you are a member of Facebook, vote in the poll on our page there, to raise more publicity.
Passionate about QE2's service life for 37 years and creator of this website.  Worked in IT for 27 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #1 on: Oct 25, 2011, 01:01 PM »
I keep wondering whether I should change my lone "Don't care" vote...

My initial reaction as a potential passenger is that it will make very little difference to the service and quality on board whether these ships are registered in the UK or elsewhere. I am pretty sure that Cunard will continue to strive to maintain that superficially "British" atmosphere they have created for these ships, and will also make sure that several of the highly visible officers and crew willl speak with an impeccably British accent.

The place written on her stern is not hugely important to me, as I have no strong attachments to Southampton as a city. I did a little bit of internet surfing last night, to check out the other "British" cruise lines, and found that all of those I have enjoyed or am tempted to try, i.e. Fred Olsen, CMV and Saga, have registered their ships outside the UK and mostly outside the European Union. The major German and French cruise lines seem to have done the same thing. Costa and HAL retain some European registrations. Yet all these lines seem to be able to create something of the atmosphere of their so-called "home" countries (UK, Germany, France, etc.) onboard. So, I would not be overly concerned that the "British" (still in inverted commas) atmosphere of the Cunard ships will be lost, just because of the change in registration.

The reason why finally I DO care, is because this change in registration will most probably erode the working conditions of the non British crew members on board, who will no longer be protected by equal treatment legislation. I know from observation, as well as many conversations, that they work very hard, spend most months of the year away from their families, and have the great objective of succeeding as the main breadwinner of an extended family, including most importantly those they wish to provide with a good education so as to improve their life chances. In other words, those who need a decent income most, will now receive less. Those who are already at the bottom of the salary scale on the ships, can be pushed back a little more.

So, for myself, I really don't care about the port of registration -- but because of the real reasons for this change, I care deeply.

Offline Bob C.

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #2 on: Oct 25, 2011, 02:18 PM »
I see your line of thinking, Isabelle.  To me it's just one more step away from the Cunard we knew and read about in maritime history.  The company is a shell of it's former self and Carnival is walking all over the Cunard name.  In the same vane, Carnival should just absorb the "company" changing its name to Carnival and repainting the ships to Carnival livery. 

I believe the only reason they keep the Cunard name is because it brings with it a sense luxury and history.  Without the Southampton or Liverpool on their sterns, they might as well be Carnival ships.

Offline Rod

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #3 on: Oct 29, 2011, 07:38 PM »
I voted do not care because it is highly unlikely that I will travel on a Cunard ship in the future. I am extremely sad to see the end, basically of Cunard Line. But it is I feel, purely a business decision on Carnivals part. I am sure in the future the Cunard name will go entirely as soon as it becomes more than it is worth. 5 years after I moved to this country I had to stop using the name Cunard as people had no recollection..."I was 20 years with Cunard Line"..... I had to change it to 20 years on Queen Elizabeth 2. Now it has been changed to 20 years on QE2.
NOW if I had a spare $100,000 I might consider a Cunard cruise just for sh*&ts and giggles. BUT it would definately be in the next year. After that I would have serious worries about safety standards regarding a ship registered in Bermuda.

janiceallan59

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Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #4 on: Nov 05, 2011, 03:17 PM »
How can we have ships that are named after British monarchs not registered in Britain.

Am booked on QM2 leaving with her sisters for the Queens Jubilee next year and it will just be so strange not to see Southampton below the names.

Will standards drop on board - I don't know but when money is involved its quite likely.

Online cunardqueen

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #5 on: Nov 05, 2011, 05:47 PM »
Quote
  Will standards drop on board - I don't know but when money is involved its quite likely.   
Given recent reviews, and from a friend who recently cruised, they havent so much as dropped, but fallen through the decks.
But we can take comfort from the fact that the Wedding business will cover the massive drop in revenue that Carnival have experienced, But then standards always came at a price, and when you can cross the atlantic at fares that seem impossible to believe, and are indeed cheaper than a travelodge, then standards are first to go, and passengers are usually next.. 
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline Rod

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #6 on: Nov 05, 2011, 06:08 PM »
Given recent reviews, and from a friend who recently cruised, they havent so much as dropped, but fallen through the decks.
But we can take comfort from the fact that the Wedding business will cover the massive drop in revenue that Carnival have experienced, But then standards always came at a price, and when you can cross the atlantic at fares that seem impossible to believe, and are indeed cheaper than a travelodge, then standards are first to go, and passengers are usually next..  

After this I will not quote weddings again...I promise. The wedding thing is a load of horse apples. It is totally to get around the Europaen crewing regs that includes wages. Anytime you start dictating wages without offering something in return...you are doomed to failure. If you cannot supply the same product, for less money than your competitors can, then you lose.
You either have to supply a different product, or reduce your prices. Carnival is supplying the same product..so must reduce their prices!
Sadly, those of us that remember service, whether in restaurants, hotels or any other part of the service industry, are diminishing.
Standards throught the world are going down.
The cruise industry reflects that!
« Last Edit: Nov 05, 2011, 08:14 PM by Isabelle Prondzynski »

Online cunardqueen

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #7 on: Nov 05, 2011, 06:14 PM »
Quote
   The wedding thing is a load of horse apples. It is totally to get around the Europaen crewing regs that includes wages. Anytime you start dictating wages without offering something in return...you are doomed to failure. If you cannot supply the same product, for less money than your competitors can, then you lose.
 
Oh dear, Cunard wouldnt lie to their past,present and future passengers..would they? ;)
Given the fact the reflagging has gone ahead at the race of knots, when can we expect the grand launch of the Cunard/Carnival Ye olde wedding Chapel... that seems to be taking longer :-\
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline Mauretania1907

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #8 on: Nov 06, 2011, 05:33 AM »
I do not agree with re-registering the ships. I can see right through this, it's all about wages and conditions for the crews. They can now get Filipino or other Third World people. I have nothing against Third World people, but I see things like safety, seamanship and yes, quality of service to passengers going slowly down the toilet.
The result of all this corporate greed can be seen on Astralobe Reef, just out of Port Tauranga, New Zealand. There, a container ship named Rena crashed on to the reef just over a month ago. Oil leaked from her onto beaches and birds etc were killed by oil. The Rena (poor b***h) won't ever get off the reef except as scrap metal. Worse still, she had over 600 containers aboard, some have hazardous chemicals. Some containers have washed ashore, others sunk, still others hang precariously off the ship, waiting for a storm. Luckily the salvors have succeeded in pumping the fuel oil off the ship. Now for those containers...
The Captain and Officer on watch - both Filipino - are under house arrest, awaiting trial on two counts. 1. operating a ship in a reckless manner. 2. Polluting the sea and foreshore. The remainder of the crew were sent home - no more job for them. This whole thing has cost NZ about 10million dollars and counting.
Carnivorious don't give a fig for British tradition or where they register their ships. Their thought is' just be glad it's the Bahamas and not some real Flag of convenience dump like Liberia.'

Offline tdickson

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #9 on: Nov 18, 2011, 03:59 PM »
Just thought I would mention a few things for you all too digest ,firstly the so called Wedding Chapel"s will be very empty I suspect as the average age of a Cunard World Club Member (Any one who has sailed with Cunard automatically becomes a member as of their 2nd Cruise if longer than seven nights) is 74 yes 74 years of age (Not too many potential Bride and Grooms there then) Next now that Carnival has fooled everyone that this is the sole reason and will generate extra revenue (What about the rest of its entire FLEETS ,i.e P & O,Princess Cruises,The Yachts of Seabourn,Carnival Cruises ,Holland America Line and Costa) With all them ships in all them guises don"t they have enough places to get married,which itself is a dying trend ,Divorce ships with solicitors on board would surely earn more revenue, maybe that is to come in the future.
Real reason is they do not need to pay N.I. contributions which currently stand at about 9 %.

Offline SueOnOneDeck

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #10 on: Nov 18, 2011, 06:17 PM »
I voted that I did not appreciate the re-flagging.  More and more, important history goes by the boards every day. Not to have one British registered Cunard ship seems sad.  It is not about the weddings;  it is about the money, as it always is these days.  I do believe that with lower wages being paid, but just as much work, and service to provide, if not more, that the quality of service will certainly suffer eventually.  Last November, on the Caribbean cruise on QM2,  it was only "OK".  Not fabulous. 

I do love these ships, however.  They still carry a distinction and a dignity, not to mention history, that the other floating theme parks lack.  I like a ship to look like a ship, sail like a ship, and make me feel like I am on a ship. I go away for the history and the tradition.
Not a pizza parlour, a zip line or a skating rink.

While businesses are trying to survive a seriously bad economy, and cruise lines are no different,  I would much rather see Cunard
restructure some of their marketing policies as well as some of their itineraries, and perhaps weddings and the other cutting of corners would not be necessary.  They have done a double whammy to themselves, I fear, by impacting their very identity, and by cutting
the wages paid to those on the front lines, who have everything to do with how the line is perceived.  And I am sad for this.

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #11 on: Nov 18, 2011, 06:21 PM »
Beautifully written, Sue. I could not agree more.

Online cunardqueen

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #12 on: Nov 18, 2011, 08:41 PM »
And with fares as low as $499 for a crossing(booking US side).. that equates to roughly £50 a day those lucky brides who are so desperate to book a crossing can bring their family and all their friends,Now thats cheaper than Travelodge  ::)
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline Bruce Nicholls

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #13 on: Nov 19, 2011, 09:46 AM »
Just booked a Travel Inn for £29 so standards probably have some way to go to get to that kind of nightly rate (breakfast extra?). Keep watching!

Pat Curry

  • Guest
Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #14 on: Nov 20, 2011, 11:06 AM »
Just booked a Travel Inn for £29 so standards probably have some way to go to get to that kind of nightly rate (breakfast extra?). Keep watching!
Yes £29 for Travelodge but you don't get fed and entertained for that. 

Online cunardqueen

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #15 on: Nov 27, 2011, 10:35 AM »
The Daily Mail in scotland have devoted nearly a page to this story today the 27 November.
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #16 on: Nov 27, 2011, 12:52 PM »
It was a significant item on the morning news of BBC Radio 4 too.

The reason : weddings on board!

Online cunardqueen

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #17 on: Nov 27, 2011, 06:25 PM »
Quote
  It was a significant item on the morning news of BBC Radio 4 too.

The reason : weddings on board! 
If you tell enough people and mention it enough times, eventually you will believe what you are saying..
Personally lm still waiting to see ANY signs of ANY wedding chapel anywhere. You would think/imagine/hope or even pray that if this was such big business there would be no end of photos/designs/information spewing forth being released about anything remotely connected with the Weddings At Sea. Can ANY bride at the moment make ANY enquires as to ANY information about booking weddings....

A wedding (Im told is a brides big day) and with the supposedly big business that it brings, any day lost is a day lost for potential revenue, I cant imagine any bride booking a last minute "Cunard Wedding at sea" 
Personally the silence about any information about Weddings at sea..speaks volumes... :(
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Online Twynkle

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #18 on: Nov 28, 2011, 12:36 AM »
Maybe Myles - Just Maybe, Cunard might be re-fitting the ultra dreary green Winter ""Garden"" on Highly Mighty Mary
into a place that remotely resembles Gretna Green...There are waterfalls, trees as well as bushes all ready in situ....Hmmm

More seriously - maybe there won't be the need for a 'wedding chapel' per se.
It could that the Atlantic Room behind the Observation Deck would be the ideal place for an At Sea Matrimonial Ceremony a la Carnival Cunard.
It is currently used for all Jewish services, as well as card games, including Bridge. And it contains the most wonderful pictures - watercolours and line drawings of all the lighthouses that are passed by Cunarders en route from Southampton to New York harbour.
I have photos of them all, and will post them sometime before I forget!
Rosie - probably well off topic!
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for nearly 12 years.  Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Online cunardqueen

Re: Cunard Fleet Re-flagging - VOTE IN OUR POLL
« Reply #19 on: Nov 28, 2011, 03:51 PM »
Quote
  More seriously - maybe there won't be the need for a 'wedding chapel' per se.
   

Rosie Dear
 Its CUNARD... They surely to goodness wouldnt palm of the bridal party and assorted persons in a make shift room, Heck Princess have in situ a Wedding cam, Now Cunard for all they gush forth with heritage,tradition and whatever else comes to mind, l would expect much more than being shunted into some side room with a couple of extra seats. And converting a card room.  IF l ever stepped aboard one of these ships, and If l was asked to stop my playing of Canasta so they can lay out a few seats, for such a ceremony, you can bet l wouldnt be to pleased (ok so its a big IF  ;)

Next thing we know Cunard will be installing their wedding Cunard cam, and no doubt making it pay per view.
What would Samual Cunard say, hes probably looking down from on high shaking his head

Mindyou given how long  a transatlantic crossing is taking, perhaps Cunard need the extra time to cram the weddings in onboard on each crossing... And perhaps such is the demand of wedding business, we as unknowns are totally oblivious of the demand.
 
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

 

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