Author Topic: Cunard cargo ships  (Read 8896 times)

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Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Cunard cargo ships
« on: Jun 17, 2011, 01:56 PM »
Michael, you wrote :

Of the 221 ships Cunard has owned since it was founded in 1839, 125 were built in Scotland - the vast majority of them on the Clyde. I'll bring you the complete list in July Lynda.

I suppose this includes cargo ships?

I know very little indeed about them, but have often heard crew members talk about moving between the passenger ships and the cargo ships. Are there still any Cunard cargo ships? If not, are there cargo ships in the Carnival Group?

Online Louis De Sousa

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Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #1 on: Jun 17, 2011, 02:39 PM »
Here is a link to some of those ships

http://rmhh.co.uk/ships.html

Online Louis De Sousa

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Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #2 on: Jun 17, 2011, 02:40 PM »
Cunard cargo ship Brescia, Preston 1931

https://www.flickr.com/photos/rpsmithbarney/4097092128/

Online Michael Gallagher

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #3 on: Jun 17, 2011, 03:12 PM »
The 221 figure is misleading to be honest - that's how many we know for sure we have had but we don't know exactly how many we have had!

The 221 includes the cargo ships that were ordered by Cunard itself but does not include the cargo fleets Cunard acquired over the years such as Ellerman, Brocklebank, the ACT Consortium and others. I have never really been interested in cargo ships so never really paid much attention. P&O took Ellerman I think. There are no cargo ships in the Carnival Empire (unless you count the Costa Marina and Costa Allegra which were built in the 1960s as cargo ships and massively rebuilt by Costa into cruise ships).

So it would be 221 ships plus many many more if you take into account the acquired cargo companies!

And then you have to add to the 221 the huge (and little remembered) fleet Cunard had in the Med (1850s - 1900). Always known for its Atlantic operations but Cunard had just as many ships in the Med. We have never really established exactly what and exactly how many. We were once about to contract a dedicated author to establish this for us but I'm afraid he died before we were able to.

The truth is Cunard does not really know how many ships its had.

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #4 on: Jun 17, 2011, 04:40 PM »
I thought I'd share this with the forum.  

Over the course of the last 12 months I have tried to create a full listing of the Cunard fleet.  Rather than have a simple text listing of the vessel names I decided that I would try and put the ships in some form of chronological order.  Each column on the report represents a year, starting in 1840 through to 2010 (although in the latest version the start is 1812!)  Across the top of the report are the various guises of the company, from British & North American through to Carnival.  With the expansion of the date range this now includes ships from Abraham Cunard & Son (1812-1824), Samuel Cunard & Co. (1824-1836) and the Halifax Whaling Company (1837-1839).

Each of the coloured blocks represents a ship, the blocks are coded to identify Passenger,Cargo (Differing Types) or Tender, and whether they were chartered vessels.  The various conflicts throughout the time frame are shown together with which vessels participated in the campaigns.  Some ships evolved with different names, Vistafjord to Caronia, Tyyrhenia to Lancastria are a couple that come to mind.  The listing includes the ships from Cunard's initial involvement in ACL through to the eventual withdrawal.  There does however, remain some ships that need to be added (those from Moss Tankers for one!)

A sample page of the report is now attached (the original is 9 pages of A4 :o)
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2011, 04:49 PM by CAP »

Online Michael Gallagher

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #5 on: Jun 17, 2011, 04:54 PM »
It was also Cunard tradition to have officers spend time on the cargo ships. They would start on the passenger side, move over to experience the cargo side and then bring them back to the passenger ships. Mark Twain once wrote that 'Cunard would not take Noah himself as Captain until they'd worked him through the ranks'. Praise indeed!
« Last Edit: Feb 15, 2018, 09:51 AM by Lynda Bradford »

Offline Jeff Taylor

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #6 on: Jun 17, 2011, 06:27 PM »
...and now all they need is some time with Princess.  Those with Cunard experience only need not apply!

Offline Twynkle

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #7 on: Jun 17, 2011, 08:32 PM »
I thought I'd share this with the forum. 

Over the course of the last 12 months I have tried to create a full listing of the Cunard fleet.  Rather than have a simple text listing of the vessel names I decided that I would try and put the ships in some form of chronological order.  Each column on the report represents a year, starting in 1840 through to 2010 (although in the latest version the start is 1812!)  Across the top of the report are the various guises of the company, from British & North American through to Carnival.  With the expansion of the date range this now includes ships from Abraham Cunard & Son (1812-1824), Samuel Cunard & Co. (1824-1836) and the Halifax Whaling Company (1837-1839).

Each of the coloured blocks represents a ship, the blocks are coded to identify Passenger,Cargo (Differing Types) or Tender, and whether they were chartered vessels.  The various conflicts throughout the time frame are shown together with which vessels participated in the campaigns.  Some ships evolved with different names, Vistafjord to Caronia, Tyyrhenia to Lancastria are a couple that come to mind.  The listing includes the ships from Cunard's initial involvement in ACL through to the eventual withdrawal.  There does however, remain some ships that need to be added (those from Moss Tankers for one!)

A sample page of the report is now attached (the original is 9 pages of A4 :o)

Hello CAP

Your List is very impressive!

While expecting that the Cunard Line (etc) section of The Ships List is a familiar one to you - others may not have seen it yet!
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/cunard.html

You might also know of the research by a member of the LinersList website. He is cataloging very many, if not all, the White Star Line shipping movements from their beginnings in Liverpool in 1845 
Rosie


PS - edited to add the following link to the Merchant Navy - Cunard
http://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/f33/ships-i-have-sailed-cunard-1716/
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2011, 10:15 PM by Twynkle »
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for nearly 12 years.  Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #8 on: Jun 18, 2011, 07:16 AM »
hi Rosie,

Thanks for the feedback. and the sources you identify are very good. 

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #9 on: Jun 18, 2011, 07:25 AM »

And then you have to add to the 221 the huge (and little remembered) fleet Cunard had in the Med (1850s - 1900). Always known for its Atlantic operations but Cunard had just as many ships in the Med.

Cunard also ran a Great Lakes Service using ships such as Alpha & Nantes

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #10 on: Jun 18, 2011, 07:56 AM »
All this is fascinating information, a lot of which was quite new to me.

I wonder whether there are still Cunard cargo ships, even now? If so, what do they carry, and from where to where?

If not, when and why did they cease operations?

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #11 on: Jun 18, 2011, 09:38 AM »
All this is fascinating information, a lot of which was quite new to me.

I wonder whether there are still Cunard cargo ships, even now? If so, what do they carry, and from where to where?

If not, when and why did they cease operations?

Whilst some of the ships that were formerly part of the wider Cunard fleet still ply their trade they now belong to new owners.  Cunard had one last fling at the cargo business when it introduced a series of bulk carriers (Cunard Champion, Cunard Caravel etc).  These came out of Cunard service in the late seventies.  

As a founding member of Atlantic Container Liner (ACL) Cunard did try to gain a foothold in, what was at the time the future of cargo operations.  However, this did not last long and Cunard withdrew their interest in the consortium.

All of the carog operations had disappeared by the mid/late eighties.  Most of what remained of the cargo vessels I believe were sold to Andrew Weir & Co (Port Line) and subsequently sold on.  The container business went to P&O


I believe the cargo operations were closed in order to concentrate solely on leisure operations. Trafalgar House would have been been the new owners at the time and from what I've read the focus was on QE2 and developing the Cunard Hotels business, providing a total holiday experience.
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2011, 03:52 PM by CAP »

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #12 on: Jul 24, 2011, 09:23 PM »
The 221 includes the cargo ships that were ordered by Cunard itself but does not include the cargo fleets Cunard acquired over the years such as Ellerman, Brocklebank, the ACT Consortium and others. I have never really been interested in cargo ships so never really paid much attention. P&O took Ellerman I think. There are no cargo ships in the Carnival Empire (unless you count the Costa Marina and Costa Allegra which were built in the 1960s as cargo ships and massively rebuilt by Costa into cruise ships).
The truth is Cunard does not really know how many ships its had.

I've recently added ships from Anchor Line and Port Line to my database.  All that remains is to add ithe handful of ships for Ellerman/Moss Tankers.  At present the total build count is 520.  The reason I have gone with build count is that this relates to a single vessel, numerous ships,both passenger and cargo were either transferred around the group or were given new names within the fleet.  Also include in this count are ships that were chartered either for a single or multiple voyages.

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #13 on: Aug 04, 2011, 06:24 PM »
Attached is a reasonably accurate representation of the size of the "Cunard Fleet" viewed at the turn of each decade.  Probably worthwhile adding a little more for clarification purposes.  

The fleet represents all of those vessels in service for the "Cunard Enterprise", i.e. including subsiidiary companies and those vessels that may have been chartered.  As the measurements are taken at a single point in time there is no representation of ships that may have joined the fleet and disappeared within the course of the intervening years.

I can of course be much more granular with the information, for example drilling down to actual numbers for; each year or by vessel type or subsidiary or any permutation but as this is a first cut I wanted it a good and simple representation of the likely numbers.  .
« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2011, 07:28 PM by CAP »

Offline Rod

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #14 on: Aug 05, 2011, 12:32 AM »
I cannot open the earlier charts.
But at one time Cunard had Moss Tankers, a North Sea supply line and a ferry company I believe.

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #15 on: Aug 05, 2011, 06:42 AM »
I cannot open the earlier charts.

Rod , the earlier charts were just photos of the spreadsheet and as such low resolution images.

In my data I have Moss Tankers, I think the North Sea Supply was actually Offshore Marine Services.  But I'm not so sure I have anything regarding a ferry company.  If you have anything more on this then please post, I'm interested tofind out more.

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard cargo ships
« Reply #16 on: Aug 15, 2011, 09:58 AM »
I thought this attachement might be useful in giving some dimension to the Cunard Fleet/Operations.  Although undated I believe thiis extract from a corporate borchure ito be from around 1980, this was of course when the company formed part of the broader Trafalgar House group (hence the added information below the actual chart).

At the time of publication the ships within "Cunard Line", were QE2, Cunard Princess and Cunard Countess.  What is suprising from this is within the cargo operations Cunard once again ventured into aviation.
« Last Edit: Aug 15, 2011, 02:26 PM by CAP »

Offline Rod

Cunard's cargo ships
« Reply #17 on: Apr 22, 2014, 03:41 PM »
I never realized that RES manned the "Oily Boily"

Offline CAP

Re: Cunard's cargo ships
« Reply #18 on: Apr 22, 2014, 09:47 PM »
RES supplied R/O's to the Passenger and cargo ships run by Cunard plus one or 2 other ships under contract such as m.v.England and for some reason a Nigerian Oil Tanker called m.v. Oliobiri.

The "Oily Biro" was as far as I can ascertain, Cunard's only Very Large Crude Carrier (VLCC).  She was however owned by the Nigerian Government but managed by Cunard Shipping Services.  CSS was a subsidiary company like RES and I think the tanker was their first vessel.

Offline Rod

Re: Cunard's cargo ships
« Reply #19 on: Apr 22, 2014, 11:06 PM »
Most people would be amazed to know that at one time Cunard and its companies were the largest combined shipping company in the world. The pax fleet being almost the smallest part.

 

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