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Author Topic: Elizabeth - General Discussion  (Read 65927 times)

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Online skilly56

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #200 on: Feb 11, 2010, 11:49 PM »
Ken,

In answer to your question as to why Carnival are getting these ships built in Italy - I have been led to believe they are getting a discount on each hull - SO LONG AS THEY EMPLOY 'X' NUMBER OF ITALIANS ON BOARD.

This gives the Italian shipbuilders continual work, then gives sea-going employment to their nationals as well. All the 'Grand Princess' class ships were built in Italy, and also have a high percentage of Italian crew.

Why didn't Britain think of doing this - it would have kept many shipyards going, and given employment as well.

I know one young officer who, after first hand experience, has given Princess ships a miss because
a. he doesn't want to have to learn the language to understand what is going on, and
b. a few years back a group of Italian cadets had a go at him because he wants to work for his money. Fortunately, this ship had a UK bosun on board, who backed the lone cadet up when the latter had to physically convince the Italian cadets that his work ethic was correct (ie, he was happy to work for his meals and his money), and theirs was wrong. I'm not saying all Italians have this work ethic - recently I met a couple of Italian officer's who thoroughly enjoy their jobs and DO do a good days work from all reports. There is always good and bad every where, and I hope the above statement doesn't offend anyone.

Skilly
« Last Edit: Feb 12, 2010, 12:37 AM by skilly56 »

Offline highlander0108

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #201 on: Feb 12, 2010, 03:32 AM »
Thanks Skilly for the insight on Fincantieri.  Having sailed on the Costa Magica, but by Fincantieri, the fit and finish on the ship was excellent.  It would be interesting to get a count of how many ships they have turned out for the carnival fleet. 

We also found the mixture of crew on Costa pretty much like on Cunard, but ovbiously with mainly Italian ships officers and Italian instead of UK flavor in the staff. 

Giving the Vista hull design some further thought here, while there is some economy in using a proven basic hull design, the naval architects still had alot of work at hand in the lengthening, recaulculating scantlings for the steel, and rebalancing the hull with all the changes in layout from previous Vistas.  With the yard having built so many of these designs now, there must be cost savings involved all around.

As the last post illustrates, the rear end is far from "liner-like."  With all the flat sections aft, the hull cannot possibly have the ride and seakeeping abilities of QE2, but I suppose that is the trade-off for a design that makes a few crossings a year verses one designed for weekly service.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Tom

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #202 on: Feb 12, 2010, 06:39 AM »
Fincantieri have completed 35 ships for Carnival Corporation over the years with 5 more currently under construction (Carnival Magic, Queen Elizabeth, Nieuw Amsterdam, Costa Deliziosa, and Azura).  Holland America Lines have 13 (4 Vista Class, 1 Modified Vista Class, 4 R-Class, 4 S-Class).  Their entire fleet with the exception of Prinsendam was constructed in Fincantieri yards.  Princess has had 4 vessels built for them after they merged with Carnival Corporation, all of which are Grand Class vessels.  However, a large majority of Princess ships had been constructed in Italy before Carnival purchased them.  P&O has had 3 vessels built for them after being purchased by Carnival (1 Vista Class and 2 Grand Class).  Costa has had 6 vessels built for them (2 Destiny Class, 2 Concordia Class, and 3 Modified Vista Class).  Cunard has had 1 vessel built for them, the Queen Victoria, a Modified Vista Class.

So, all together, Fincantieri has built 5 Vista Class vessels and 3 Modified Vista Class vessels (in which the exterior structure had been significantly altered from the original 5 built for Holland America Line and P&O) with 3 more Modified Vista Class vessels still under construction.

As with regards to her far from liner-like stern, she is not by any means a transatlantic express liner and has been designed as such.  The seakeeping abilities of QE2 are totally unnecessary for the types of itineraries that she will be running.  In fact, the lost space used in designing a more traditional shaped vessel would be detrimental as it translates to less revenue generating passenger cabins as well as smaller/fewer passenger amenities.  Compare the number and size of public rooms between QE2 and QV, vessels that are roughly the same length and breadth, and the benefits to boxy design become all too clear.  QV has a few double height rooms and several triple height spaces onboard.  These types of double height and triple height spaces are becoming increasingly common on cruise ships.  Additionally, the boxy design is the perfect platform for the all important balcony, an amenity that was out of reach to the vast majority of QE2's passengers and is in high demand by today's cruise market.

QE2 and the new QE are not comparable.  They were built for different markets in different time periods.  QE2 outlived her purpose years ago when QM2 took over Transatlantic crossings.  Her design is horrendously outdated by modern standards and clearly didn't appeal to the majority of the cruising market during her final days as a cruise ship.  Those who didn't appreciate her history were sorely disappointed with the worn, tacky ship that was QE2 towards the end.

Offline rough crossing

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #203 on: Feb 12, 2010, 09:09 AM »
Ken,

In answer to your question as to why Carnival are getting these ships built in Italy - I have been led to believe they are getting a discount on each hull - SO LONG AS THEY EMPLOY 'X' NUMBER OF ITALIANS ON BOARD.

This gives the Italian shipbuilders continual work, then gives sea-going employment to their nationals as well. All the 'Grand Princess' class ships were built in Italy, and also have a high percentage of Italian crew.

Why didn't Britain think of doing this - it would have kept many shipyards going, and given employment as well.
The answer is probably connected to the fact that - if true - the practices are almost certainly contrary to EU regulations - now as we all know, the UK has often complained that not all member states have quite the same degree of respect for these regulations as we do........ 

Online skilly56

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #204 on: Feb 12, 2010, 10:47 PM »
Hi Tom,

Thanks for the Fincantieri rundown - I knew the numbers were getting up there, but the actual figures are a surprise. I have just been told that the Carnival ships get a tax break from the Italian govt so long as they employ a large number of Italian crew. And Italy does have a long shipbuilding history, including some of the fastest warships ever built up until the 1950's (this statement probably doesn't include the UK-built 40-knot Manxman class minelayers of WW II).

I have a lot of photos here of various hull sections of one of the 'Grand' class ships under construction at Fincantieri - they obviously know how to build them properly, but I wonder what the in-service problems have been like. I would think any problems probably get fixed smartly when the customer is Carnival, and they put so much work Fincantieri's way.

Cheers
Skilly

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #205 on: Feb 13, 2010, 12:05 AM »
The answer is probably connected to the fact that - if true - the practices are almost certainly contrary to EU regulations - now as we all know, the UK has often complained that not all member states have quite the same degree of respect for these regulations as we do........ 
Yes indeed. Globalisation is something that the UK appears to have embraced enthusiastically, even though it has resulted in ALL our companies now being foreign owned (e.g. Mini, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, MG, Cunard, Cadburys, HP sauce.... the list is very, very long indeed...)
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Offline Fairfield

The new QUEEN ELIZABETH
« Reply #206 on: Feb 15, 2010, 10:46 AM »
Bill Scott in Australia kindly sent me this which he got from an Italian friend of the new QE being floated out at the Fincantieri yard in January.
Paul Strathdee

cos918

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #207 on: Feb 16, 2010, 03:13 PM »
Was up in the Baltic on a few cruise yesterday . We came back on super star ,she is built by Fincantieri yard. I can help notice the similar shape once you remove the stern doors and add some balconies .

John


Offline luzparis

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #208 on: Feb 16, 2010, 05:58 PM »
eheh I love the comparaison !! the back of QE IS HORRIBLE

Pat Curry

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #209 on: Feb 16, 2010, 09:02 PM »
Stap me!!!.  It's a barge.  How dare they call it (and it's not a her) a Queen? 

Well done Cunar**  (rhymes with farce).

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #210 on: Feb 16, 2010, 10:33 PM »
Stap me!!!.  It's a barge.  How dare they call it (and it's not a her) a Queen? 
Sacrilege.  Its just awful, but the name is the worst bit of all, otherwise' she'd just be a cruise ship I'm not interested in, as opposed to one named after one of the most amazing ships of all time.
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Online Twynkle

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #211 on: Feb 23, 2010, 09:21 PM »
Cunard announcing some of the Officers appointed to join Captain Wells on Queen Elizabeth
http://www.cunard.com/news/Default.asp?Cat=&View=ViewArticle&Mode=News&ContentID=8381&
(btw, is 'hale' the new hail?)
« Last Edit: Feb 23, 2010, 09:31 PM by Twynkle »
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for nearly 12 years.  Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Offline highlander0108

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #212 on: Feb 23, 2010, 10:39 PM »
It is nice to see Hamish Sunter, QE2's last Staff Captain finding a home on the new cruise ship Queen Elizabeth.  All that is missing is the former Master of QE2.  :'(
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Online Twynkle

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #213 on: Mar 12, 2010, 07:59 AM »
Cunard Grills footage and interview with Interior Designer
Alastair Greener and Cunard







And a 'sort of cutaway' model
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2010/03/inside-cunards-queen-elizabeth.html
« Last Edit: Mar 17, 2010, 07:21 PM by Twynkle »
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for nearly 12 years.  Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Online Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #214 on: Mar 21, 2010, 05:05 PM »
Thanks to Liners' List, I have just had a lot of fun looking through the 20 short-listed designs in a sculpture competition for the Queen Elizabeth. The story is here (you could even win a cruise on the QE!) :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/6995832/Cunard-sculpture-competition.html

and the 20 designs are here :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturepicturegalleries/6988902/Cunard-Competition.html

I really like the idea of a sculpture competition, open to the general public. Well done, whoever thought of that!


The results are out, and here they are :

http://wearecunard.com/2010/03/specially-commissioned-sculpture-for-queen-elizabeth-is-revealed/

Seems very strange that the prize winning sculptor will not be creating his own prize winning sculpture...   ???

Online Peter Mugridge

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #215 on: Mar 21, 2010, 10:42 PM »
^^^^^  That's actually normal practice these days; the creating sculptor will provide the concept and the design but the actual work on the full size thing will be carried out commercially.
"It is a capital mistake to allow any mechanical object to realise that you are in a hurry!"

Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #216 on: Mar 24, 2010, 11:04 AM »
I think Cunard should have revived some of the old names ending in "ia" (except for Victoria of course) for the QV & QE hulls instead of using the Queen names - BUT avoiding Lusitania, Mauretania and Aquitania. Saxonia & Devonia would have fitted the bill.

Gav
« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2010, 01:18 PM by Clydebuilt1971 »

Offline Chris Frame

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010) - Callsign
« Reply #217 on: Mar 26, 2010, 02:47 PM »
Please excuse me if this question has been answered, but do you think QE's call sign be GBQE or... GBTT?

Offline highlander0108

Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #218 on: Mar 26, 2010, 03:49 PM »
That is an excellent question Chris.  Since QE2 is still registered as a ship, if they kept the same call letters, QE will have to adopt something else.  Perhaps the information on the AIS site will list the current call sign of QE2.
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
My Blog:  http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth (2010)
« Reply #219 on: Mar 26, 2010, 03:51 PM »
QE2 hasn't been GBTT (the callsign she inherited from Queen Mary) since her re-flagging last year.  As a non-british ship, she can't use a British callsign any more.
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.