Author Topic: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach  (Read 78473 times)

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Online Brandon Sterkel

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #180 on: May 01, 2021, 12:39 AM »
One of my favorite YouTube channels uploaded a video on the history of the Queen Mary in Long Beach today. He goes over all of the different companies that have operated the ship and the events that led up to the ship's recent bankruptcy. Just watching it for the first time kinda opened my eyes as to how much trouble the ship is in right now.



The QE2 gets a little mention in the video as well!
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Offline skilly56

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #181 on: May 01, 2021, 02:25 AM »
Had forgotten this thread - I have lots of photos from our August 2018 visit & stay aboard Queen Mary in Long Beach.

Starting up top, I have never in my life seen so many different telegraphs on a ship's bridge!
There were no hand-held VHF radios back when this ship was built, so they have Mooring Telegraphs between Bridge & Mooring Stations, they have Generator Telegraphs between Bridge & Turbo Generator Rooms, Helm Telegraphs between Bridge & Aft Steering position in the Steering Flat, plus the engine telegraphs for the 4 propeller shafts! I did point out to the bloke on the bridge that he had the port shafts Full Ahead, the stbd shafts at Full Astern, and, depending on how long they had been in this position, he would be doing horrendous damage to the stern tube bearings! But he had no sense of humour at all!

Skilly
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 01:24 PM by skilly56 »

Online Thomas Hypher

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #182 on: May 01, 2021, 03:12 AM »
One of my favorite YouTube channels uploaded a video on the history of the Queen Mary in Long Beach today. He goes over all of the different companies that have operated the ship and the events that led up to the ship's recent bankruptcy. Just watching it for the first time kinda opened my eyes as to how much trouble the ship is in right now.

What I find the most concerning about this most recent bankruptcy is that the City Council of Long Beach have had a meeting regarding the *possibility* of transferring her to another city department - not selling her outright as I mistakenly mentioned here before this edit. I have attached the source of this information below. However, apparently the City Council stepped in and took over responsibility for the ship and her associated area when the Harbour Commission wanted to sell her off. If she goes back to being the responsibility of the Harbour Commission I understand the risk of her being sold off returns (whether that is a good or bad thing) as the Harbour Commission might not want her?

It would be a miracle in my opinion if the significant cost of her repairs would be borne by their taxpayers, also given they’ve let her get to this state condition wise over the years. Not enough people in the right places in authority or in wider society seem to care enough for the ship and will only mourn her when she’s condemned and scrapped in situ - if indeed that sentiment would even exist outside of us shipping fans and other niche groups with interest in her. Unlike what Jake (Bright Sun Films) mentions about her having to be moved to be disposed of, where she is - is ideal for scrapping whilst afloat. Her lack of seaworthiness (for towing) is no protection here, and should be more concerning if anything as it limits her options.

In my opinion she needs to come under full City control including operation but only if the will, funding (big question mark!) and commitment is there, otherwise she needs to go into fully private ownership and operation with significant financial backing. This split way of owning and operating clearly hasn’t worked and probably won’t as time goes on and her material condition deteriorates further.

Jake's (Bright Sun Film's) video here will however, hopefully rally quite a few more people to her cause though given the substantial following the channel has. Quite a few comments on the video mention they had no idea she was in trouble or to what extent she is in trouble, so hopefully this leads to a positive outcome in whatever form that could take.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 06:17 AM by Thomas Hypher »
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last stepped foot and sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2, in her new life, in Dubai back in January 2020.

Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #183 on: May 09, 2021, 10:32 AM »
Fresh fears for Queen Mary amid claims 'urgent' repairs remain outstanding

The future of the RMS Queen Mary, one of Scotland’s most historic ocean liners, has been thrown into doubt amid allegations its operators failed to carry out millions of pounds worth of urgent repairs to the ailing ship.

https://www.scotsman.com/heritage-and-retro/heritage/fresh-fears-for-queen-mary-amid-claims-urgent-repairs-remain-outstanding-3227440
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Online cunardqueen

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #184 on: May 09, 2021, 04:41 PM »
The usual cut and paste from a newspaper of various reports hatched together creating mass hysteria.
Granted there are parts of the ship in need of attention. And sadly right now Covid is a death knell for many good and great operations who are simply  shutting up shop.
 
But let's take comfort that it's being raised in the House of Commons. And we know that will do a fat lot of good.
But screaming Bankruptcy doesn't help, American Airlines filed for bankruptcy a while back, and look at them now
For what it's worth, under the "ownership" of Disney a great deal of damage was done, the cabins all had their worktops/ desktops ripped out, some didn't even have them ripped out, then marble was glued on top.
   
While it's sad to see the bridge wings closed off , the lifeboats are forever needing attention, the davits could be in better attention, but really if some were removed would that be such a bad thing? QE2 adapted very well, aside from the diehard ship fans , and lets be honest how many of them have visited versus the new crowd of tourists
.
When l stayed over in one of the lovely suites a tour was passing by of Americans , l asked the guide who l knew did they want to see a suite, of course they all jumped at the chance, you want to have seen their faces and the various comments, most were bowled over, a few lamented that it looked old and worn, l pointed to the bathroom cabinet with mirror and said have a look and what do you see, there was no response, l pointed out people have been looking at that mirror for the past 80 years, the sink over there, people have been washing their faces in that at 28 knots in the middle of the Atlantic. I pointed out the 13 internal doors, my maid even had her own bedroom, which bought the comment did l have my own maid. Yes l did and she had the afternoon off.
I saw the guide later , he said they loved the suite tour and in fact one couple were coming back next weekend to stay in that very same suite. but i digress....       

When l board Hotel Queen Mary, l board with rose-colored spectacles, I'm not blind to the imperfections but  l hope and prey l can visit in December , given the various newspaper reports l fear, l will have them glued to my head with double thick lens. Let's not dismiss the death of Queen Mary just yet.   

   
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Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #186 on: May 25, 2021, 12:02 PM »
This isn't your usual article, its written by Geraldine Knatz who is the former director of the Port of Los Angeles and prior to that was managing director at the Port of Long Beach.

https://beachcomber.news/content/bowels-queen-mary

It all seems a bit hopeless for her unless something radical and very expensive is done and it doesn't seem like anyone in Long Beach places much value on her.

If they were to fill in her moat - so she's not floating - would that resolve lots of the issues?  It seems like it might, unless her actual structure would still be unsafe - e.g. if important bits of her could still collapse - but at least it would stop the worry of her sinking.

I've always thought that a liner hotel - out of the water - that you could go underneath, would be amazing but I realise thats a pipedream!

I dont know why everyone - everywhere - doesn't place more importance on her.  She's getting on for 100 years old, its incredible she still exists at all.  As a movie set etc. she would be completely priceless if some sympathetic renovation was carried out on her.  Even if you didn't know her absolutely amazing history, and how hugely famous she was in her day.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 12:08 PM by Rob Lightbody »
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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #187 on: May 25, 2021, 10:05 PM »
If they were to fill in her moat - so she's not floating - would that resolve lots of the issues?  It seems like it might, unless her actual structure would still be unsafe - e.g. if important bits of her could still collapse - but at least it would stop the worry of her sinking.

I think that may simply replace one set of problems with another; it would change the whole dynamics of the stresses on her hull ( think HMS Victory, which is slowly collapsing as it is even with the masts removed ) plus there would be the ongoing corrosion risks posed by any moisture getting in between whatever they fill it in with and the hull.

It took a lot of calculations, money and precision construction just to raise the Cutty Sark onto a framework of supports designed to mimic exactly the neutral stresses of floating - and the Cutty Sark is a much smaller ship.  What they would spend on doing the equivalent for something the size and weight of the Queen Mary.... well... they might as well just do the full structural rebuild with that money.
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Offline Trevor Casey

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #188 on: May 26, 2021, 06:34 AM »
I had an idea in which they either constructed or brought QM to a pre-existing dry dock within the area. My thought behind it was that it would be perfect for keeping her afloat, but it also gives them the access to de-flood and carry out the proper maintenance work that needs to be done in order to preserve her. However, this is all just fantasy and probably will never happen.

QM is directed to a very niche market, so it doesn't surprise me that there isn't a lot of interest in her. Hopefully there will be a turn around.
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Online Thomas Hypher

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #189 on: May 26, 2021, 08:27 AM »
I had an idea in which they either constructed or brought QM to a pre-existing dry dock within the area. My thought behind it was that it would be perfect for keeping her afloat, but it also gives them the access to de-flood and carry out the proper maintenance work that needs to be done in order to preserve her. However, this is all just fantasy and probably will never happen.

QM is directed to a very niche market, so it doesn't surprise me that there isn't a lot of interest in her. Hopefully there will be a turn around.

Sadly the only drydock in her vicinity that was big enough for her, and the same drydock she started her static use conversion in back in 1968, has long since gone. However, I'm not sure she'd even make it that short distance, were it still around, given her structural woes. She rode rather high on the short journey to her current spot in 1971 and her centre of gravity would be less than ideal I would imagine, particularly if she then also leaked like a sieve (likely it seems) and therefore fell foul of the free surface effect (such as where her bulkheads have been removed and the large empty former propulsion spaces) which doesn't require much water at all to be fatal...

Queen Mary is stuck where she is for better or worse and it's about making the best of that for the good of the ship.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 08:36 AM by Thomas Hypher »
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last stepped foot and sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2, in her new life, in Dubai back in January 2020.

Offline Trevor Casey

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #190 on: May 26, 2021, 07:29 PM »
Sadly the only drydock in her vicinity that was big enough for her, and the same drydock she started her static use conversion in back in 1968, has long since gone. However, I'm not sure she'd even make it that short distance, were it still around, given her structural woes. She rode rather high on the short journey to her current spot in 1971 and her centre of gravity would be less than ideal I would imagine, particularly if she then also leaked like a sieve (likely it seems) and therefore fell foul of the free surface effect (such as where her bulkheads have been removed and the large empty former propulsion spaces) which doesn't require much water at all to be fatal...
My thoughts exactly. It's quite a shame that nothing can be really done.
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Online cunardqueen

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #191 on: May 26, 2021, 10:00 PM »
Sadly the longer she stays closed , the harder it is to reopen Unless they have a skeleton crew onboard doing various checks , but a kitchen matter how clean always needs a clean after any length of closeure.

Heck even if they could keep her open for the Sunday brunches , that's a great source of income, and any hospitality venue right now needs income in whatever format you can get it. But ultimately, places of all shapes, sizes and quality are still going to the wall. covid or other wise as an excuse. l just hope Queen Mary isn't going to be one of them 

She is for many the only reason to visit Long Beach and sadly where she is located there is nothing else in the area to draw tourists. Im always surprised just how many locals haven't been to see her, and like wise they are surprised how l would visit her so often.   
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
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Online Chris Thompson

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #192 on: May 27, 2021, 12:27 PM »
Although moving her anywhere is a major if not impossible undertaking, how about Dubai buying her and putting her next to QE2?

Offline Trevor Casey

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #193 on: May 27, 2021, 05:48 PM »
Although moving her anywhere is a major if not impossible undertaking, how about Dubai buying her and putting her next to QE2?
Actually.. they could technically swipe her up and turn the two ships into a hotel chain..
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Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #194 on: May 30, 2021, 07:26 PM »
Demolishing her in situ has to be an option they're considering, surely.  And surely is by far the most cost-effective "solution" to the pickle they find themselves in after (a) making disastrous early decisions that meant she's impossible to safely move again and (b) decades of shoddy or completely absent maintenance leading to her current state of ruin.  I just cant see how they could justify pouring lots of tens of millions into her to make her ship-shape again.

Sorry to sound depressing.  I love her as much as anyone.  But the sums don't look good.
Passionate about QE2's service life for 37 years and creator of this website.  Worked in IT for 27 years and created my personal QE2 website in 1994.

Offline Trevor Casey

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #195 on: May 30, 2021, 10:05 PM »
Demolishing her in situ has to be an option they're considering, surely.  And surely is by far the most cost-effective "solution" to the pickle they find themselves in after (a) making disastrous early decisions that meant she's impossible to safely move again and (b) decades of shoddy or completely absent maintenance leading to her current state of ruin.  I just cant see how they could justify pouring lots of tens of millions into her to make her ship-shape again.

Sorry to sound depressing.  I love her as much as anyone.  But the sums don't look good.
You're absolutely right. It may finally be her time to go. Unless the US Gov intervenes or she's marked as a national landmark, she may just be demolished within the next 10 - 15 years. She's literally the last transatlantic ocean liner from the time before air travel. She's the last great Cunarder aside from QE2 to still physically exist.

Makes me wonder about QE2 and how long we'll have before she's gone as well.
Blue hydrangea, cold cash, divine, cashmere, cologne and white sunshine.

Online Thomas Hypher

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #196 on: May 30, 2021, 10:44 PM »
Unfortunately my Dad and I have come to the same conclusion given what we've seen over the years too, Rob. I really, really hope we're wrong but then again everything and everyone has their time. My Auntie and Uncle visited Queen Mary a few years ago and found her a sad and neglected experience to the point they wouldn't return I don't think unless her fortunes turn around as it was too depressing. They are avid "proper" ship fans too, having sailed on some classics including QE2 and Saga Ruby. Queen Mary was on their bucket list too for a long time.

Trevor, QE2 is set to be the centrepiece of Port Rashid being turned into a residential quarter and marina. I heard about this from the senior people onboard during my visit and have heard the same from at least two other sources. Granted, given her track record in Dubai, we should take future plans with a pinch of salt but my gut feeling is she is here to stay in some form or another (whether we like what is done with her or not) for some time yet.
Being effectively landlocked as a centrepiece may work in QE2's favour in terms of longevity - Dubai are apparently taking into account hull maintenance as part of this too with talk of a temporary cofferdam when required every x number of years to that end. I will be sad though for sentimental reasons if QE2 is effectively landlocked by the developments (as a ship truly belongs at sea and should look as if she could get to open water in my opinion), but practicalities etc have to be taken into account and the realist in me recognises that, and I am grateful Dubai are taking her condition/material status seriously these days and are looking after her well in that regard after the dark days of the cold layup.
Dubai have deliberately avoided making the same mistakes as those made with Queen Mary after rethinking their original plans for QE2 in 2008/9 that would've made the same mistakes and perhaps ended up worse off even.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 10:45 PM by Thomas Hypher »
First sailed on QE2 in August 2003 aged 6 years old. Last stepped foot and sailed on QE2 in July 2008. Last saw the seagoing QE2 in person from the decks of QM2, on QE2's last Transatlantic crossing (Eastbound tandem) in October 2008. Visited QE2, in her new life, in Dubai back in January 2020.

Online cunardqueen

Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #197 on: May 31, 2021, 08:20 PM »
.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 08:52 PM by cunardqueen »
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline June Ingram

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #198 on: Jun 01, 2021, 07:58 PM »
It is highly unlikely that there will be any government intervention, as The Big U is still sitting waiting for help with none apparently forthcoming.
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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: RMS Queen Mary in Long Beach
« Reply #199 on: Jun 01, 2021, 11:21 PM »
It is highly unlikely that there will be any government intervention, as The Big U is still sitting waiting for help with none apparently forthcoming.

Good point.  They wouldn't support a "foreign" vessel over and above one of their own would they?  :(
"It is a capital mistake to allow any mechanical object to realise that you are in a hurry!"

 

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