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Author Topic: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2  (Read 9582 times)

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Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #20 on: Sep 17, 2010, 09:52 AM »
A queen elizabeth's only just left the fleet too!

 :D
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Offline Chris Frame

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #21 on: Sep 17, 2010, 04:45 PM »
A well thought out reply Michael.

I do like QM2 having the 2, personally, as it represents the time she came into service when she and QE2 were the two Queens. It was history in the making and the name suited her. 

But very true re: HM and he original plans for QE2's name.

RMS Queen Elizabeth 2

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #22 on: Sep 17, 2010, 08:53 PM »
I like Caronia! Cunard should consider a new ship with "ia" in the end in future.  I do find this confusing that they now have a new Queen Elizabeth because in 40 years time when Queen Mary 2 retires and the QV and QE what are tCunard going to call their new successors?

Queen Mary (3), Queen Victoria 2 and Queen Elizbeth (4)?

Its just confusing. Its nice that they thought about having another Elizabeth in the fleet. But did Cunard order a Mauretania 3? no!
I found it interesting that Cunard said they had a Queen Elizabeth with the fleet for atleast 70 years yet no plans were made to have a new Mauretania. I think they should consider a new name in future.

Offline Twynkle

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #23 on: Sep 17, 2010, 11:33 PM »
Victoria conforms with Cunard's traditional ending - 'ia'

It would be interesting to know more about the selection of names
Who gets to suggest or choose the name - does Carnival 'call the tune'?
For example - do the employees get a vote?

(There's one shipping line that used to call all it's ships after Shakespeare's female characters
Cunard seem to have named some of their ships 'in batches'!) 
 
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for nearly 12 years.  Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Offline Stowaway2k

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #24 on: Sep 18, 2010, 12:07 AM »
I think it's important that ships' names be in sync with the public's tastes, afterall it's a business that depends upon keeping up with what is appealing to the public.

Up through Edwardian times, the Romanesque names were going along with the public's tastes in all things romantic and revival, just look at the interior decorating from those times.   Such decorating would be a horror to most passengers these days. 

I think, IMO, the same applies to naming ships.  Today's people would not only have no idea what a "Mauretania" was or what it meant, I think it would be contrary to contemporary tastes and could come off sounding awkward when spoken and considered unappealing and possibly ugly to today's public.

For practical business reasons rather than historical sentiment which could be contrary to contemporary tastes, I think "Mauretania" and other Roman names from that era would be taking a risk. 

"Caronia" though is an exception, it sounds lovely when spoken and is easily pronounced. 

In keeping with the place-name tradition, maybe "Blackpool" could be given consideration?  ;D

How many Rotterdams has HAL had now, five?


Tom

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #25 on: Sep 18, 2010, 09:14 AM »
On the other hand, the new QE will be sailing cruise itineraries to the same destination QE2 called at during her final years of service.  Remember, after QM2 took over the transatlantic route in 2004, QE2 spent the rest of her days mostly cruising European waters with the occasional world cruise and cruises to North America and the Caribbean.  In my mind, QM2 took over QE2's transatlantic duties, and the new QE will be replacing QE2's cruising duties.

Let the PR machine at Carnival UK and the press turn out what they want.  Carnival can call their ships whatever they want, I don't particularly care much anymore.  I've come to the conclusion Cunard isn't what it was 5 or 10 years ago, and I've moved on.  It's not about creating vessels that capture the modern spirit of a nation, it's about marketing your standard Vista type floating box with the accomplishments of a company that is close to existing only in name.  By relying almost exclusively on their history to make sales instead of creating interesting vessels, Cunard is essentially ensuring that they will never again create the very history that made them famous in the first place.  In the future, RCI and NCL will be the players in the industry that are going to have history books written about them for the ways they changed passenger travel today, not Cunard.

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #26 on: Sep 18, 2010, 09:53 AM »
Tom, brilliant posting.

When I was at Clydebank College this week, I spoke to a girl who worked there, who had also been on Queen Victoria (and loved it) and was booked on the new QE.  When i spoke about QE2 to her, she saw "oh I was never on any of those old ones".  I think she was about 10 years younger than me, mid to late 20s, and to her, QE2 was just an ordinary old cruise ship.  This was from someone who literally works on the exact (within a few feet) spot on which QE2, QE1, QM, Lusi and Aqui were launchd.

I don't care about what current Cunard are up to either EXCEPT, and this is the point of this topic, that it is confusing the history that I AM interested in. 

The thing that amazes me about Cunard, and all their history, is their website - have a look at it - and se if you can find out about their historic ships.  Mad.

Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Online Michael Gallagher

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #27 on: Sep 18, 2010, 09:59 AM »
Rob - on your last point: go to the websites of P&O, Costa and Holland America. They all have significant histories. Where are their historical ships? This is not just a Cunard issue.

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #28 on: Sep 18, 2010, 10:01 AM »
Thanks Michael.

What they should do, and I'll help them with this if they want!, is to create a separate www.CunardHeritage.com site or something like that which can focus on their history a bit.  Surely THIS is the value of the brand that makes it worth something.
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Offline Stowaway2k

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #29 on: Sep 18, 2010, 11:24 AM »

What they should do, and I'll help them with this if they want!, is to create a separate www.CunardHeritage.com site or something like that which can focus on their history a bit. 

Someone would certainly have to help them because they sure need it.  :o

I've always thought, when I've seen Cunard's office drones make rookie mistakes, is that if I can know all this stuff about them, why can't they know this stuff about themselves?!

All it takes is some interest in the subject of the company, which means picking up and reading some books, or at worst "googling", and if a company's staff won't show that interest, then something is wrong with that company...  the best recent example was when Cunard published a still from a movie of a fictional ship and identified it as the Queen Mary... only their most famous ship... and still afloat practically right down the road from Cunard's US office...but those who should have known better, didn't.   ???

Online cunardqueen

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #30 on: Sep 18, 2010, 12:08 PM »
Quote
  I've come to the conclusion Cunard isn't what it was 5 or 10 years ago, and I've moved on.   

SadlyTom your not alone in your thoughts, along with 7 other friends l know from the QE2 days , as yet not one of us have booked anything on the new ships, and dont have anything in the pipeline. And for each of us that is highly unusual.
 Now the fact that most of us are Diamond members, One is platinum and we are all solo travellers, l would hate to think how much other custom is being lost...  Well actually thinking about it, They are losing no custom, we are just being replaced with the new breed of Carnval customer, so why should they care :(
From the moment you first glimpsed the Queen,
 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

Offline Chris Frame

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #31 on: Sep 18, 2010, 02:27 PM »
Thanks Michael.

What they should do, and I'll help them with this if they want!, is to create a separate www.CunardHeritage.com site or something like that which can focus on their history a bit.  Surely THIS is the value of the brand that makes it worth something.

I started doing this in 1999 with www.chriscunard.com ;)

I'm happy for help in adding to it if anyone is interested.

Chris.

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #32 on: Sep 18, 2010, 02:35 PM »
I started doing this in 1999 with www.chriscunard.com ;)

Who knew!  ;)

What you should do is licence your material for them to use on their own website... its exactly what they should have.  Right on their front page - "click here to read about our 170 years of historic ships"
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Offline Chris Frame

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #33 on: Sep 18, 2010, 02:51 PM »
Who knew!  ;)

What you should do is licence your material for them to use on their own website... its exactly what they should have.  Right on their front page - "click here to read about our 170 years of historic ships"

I love that idea, of the link.

Also strengthening ties with the Cunard Steamship Society would be good as there's a huge wealth of historical information there.

I guess the problem is that as a company Cunard need to have control over what is said about them. That's understandable, fair etc and for this reason they can't really link off to third party discussions on their heritage...

On Queen Victoria (I've been told) they still play my lectures on the TV. The history is so often what the passengers find so interesting about sailing with Cunard (rather than HAL or P&O), which makes my job easier as a maritime lecturer aboard... people want to hear what I have to say!

HAL and P&O have a different approach. They seem to be able to fill their ships regardless of their heritage. I think the same is true for Cunard, but fortunately Cunard maintain their historical links.
« Last Edit: Sep 18, 2010, 03:04 PM by Chris »

Tom

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #34 on: Sep 18, 2010, 06:19 PM »
QV is a lovely ship, but now that the staff from the "Pre-Carnival" days are quickly retiring/resigning, there is little incentive for me to cruise onboard her again.  There's nothing wrong with the service the ex-Princess or P&O staff have to offer, it's just not on the same level of quality and care that Cunard used to provide.  Why should we pay a premium to cruise on a Cunard ship over a cheaper P&O cruise if they run nearly identical itineraries, were built by the same shipbuilder, staffed by the same company, and designed by the same design team?  QE2 used to justify the expense because she was more than just another Vista.

Cunard's "passion" for its history will lead to its fall.  You can't move forwards if you are perpetually looking backwards and praising all the things you've done before.  It's one thing to know your roots and to appreciate where you come from, however, it's another thing altogether to be so totally engrossed in the past that you are essentially smothering yourself with it.  This "passion" has turned Cunard from mainstream household name for luxury into some niche brand catering to those who get a warm fuzzy feeling when they hear the word "history".  Those here who can actually appreciate Cunard's history can easily see through Carnival's marketing and recognize how very little of that spirit and innovation remains.

Cunard has become a company of contradictions.  They praise their history whilst taking many opportunities to rid themselves of it, and they pride themselves on their upscale brand while there is little to distinguish them from other Carnival UK companies.  I simply cannot respect a company that cannot even pretend to stay true to their core ideals.  I need integrity, not hypocrisy, and that's why I've looked to other companies these days for when I book cruises.

Offline Stowaway2k

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #35 on: Sep 18, 2010, 11:40 PM »
On Cunard's Facebook page for a while they were doing "Today in Cunard History".

It's mostly "this day in 1870 _______ was launched"
I realized that they were skipping over many other interesting and important dates in Cunard history, so I started posting on their wall my own Cunard history research. 

There is so much more than just launchings and maiden voyages, many interesting events that were not mentioned, such as the date that the Cunard and White Star merger was finalized, Cunard buying up every available lifeboat in NYC upon Mauretania's arrival in April 1912, the day Queen Mary left the Clyde beginning one of the most storied of Cunard histories, etc.

But, nobody cared, there was virtually no interest shown so I quit doing it.   ::)

The historic events of Cunard were meaningless to those Cunard Facebook fans who would then go mental for the silly puff-pieces about Ascot Balls and such.

c'est la vie.   ;D

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #36 on: Oct 12, 2010, 08:28 AM »
This is a brilliant piece, and I agree with almost every word they say!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9076000/9076513.stm
Passionate about QE2's service life for 35 years and creator of this website.

Offline Mauretania1907

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #37 on: Oct 29, 2010, 08:17 AM »
I agree with you, Rob, it's a brilliant piece, but there is one comment which I suspect you picked up on also - will this Vista Lizzie ever be as famous as QE2? She might be, or might not, time will tell.

Offline Chris Frame

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #38 on: Oct 29, 2010, 02:36 PM »
 
In this case, Cunard have got it right, even though us purists aren't going along with it.   ;) People are going to notice and pay attention when the new Queen Elizabeth pulls into port... which likely does not happen much for any of the other Vistas save for Queen Victoria.

I touched on this back in 2008 in this blog from aboard QE2:
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,513.msg11132.html#msg11132


Offline Chris Frame

Re: Queen Elizabeth is not the replacement for QE2
« Reply #39 on: Oct 30, 2010, 02:47 AM »
Quote
Others may quibble with Shanks's insistence that Queen Elizabeth is a liner, not a cruise ship, but I'm not going to get involved in that argument.

From: http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2010/10/queen-elizabeth-cunards-newest.html

 

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