QE2 Portholes (general discussion)

[Bob C.]

This question may belong in Design, Concept & Build but since the porthole topic is already started...

Anyone knwo how the port holes were cut in the hull shell plates?  Were they cut in place or in the fabrication shop?  One of the build photos seems to show recently installed hull plates without holes in them.

[Bob C.]

Thanks Andy but my question is about the 1-6 Deck portholes.  Look at the stern photo at this link (http://www.clydebankrestoration.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=580) and you'll notice the absence of portholes that will later be cut.  Just wondering about how that process of cutting and installing portholes took place.

[Twynkle]

As a matter of interest...
(curiosity and naivety!)

Are portholes designed to be cut into the riveted area of a panel?
(never, ever thought I'd be asking this sort of question...Hmm)

[Andrew Collier]

Oh sorry Bob, the thread got a bit confusing!

It is my understanding that portholes are generally cut after construction of the hull, I may be wrong, but I think it would be hard to have the curves in the plates formed to the right shapes if holes already in them, or if the holes cut after forming the curves but before welding onto the ship, how could the be absolutly certain they lined up exactly or not bend slightly out of shape with the final fit onto the hull? I've certainly never seen precut portholes being fitted!
Would love to hear from someone more in the know!

And to Rosie, I have never heard of or seen a porthole in the rivited section, the rivets are there to hold the ship together and so represent part of the hull where more than one piece of metal come together, so it would be very difficult and structurally unsound to put portholes on the joins!

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Are portholes designed to be cut into the riveted area of a panel?

There is really only one riveted strip on the QE2 body, where the steel hull meets the aluminium superstructure.
Have a look where they run, here :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/prondis_in_kenya/3412503870/

This is very different from the Queen Mary, which absolutely gleams with her many rivets :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/54682674@N00/2149583237/

I love that picture! But it seems that the rivets are all carefully placed around the portholes.

And finally, this thread is specifically about the QE2's riveted joint :

https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,620.0.html

[Twynkle]

Oh....Thank you, Isabelle!

I am a bit sorry for using the wrong words!
ER.... think I should have said 'welded' - not 'riveted'
 - as in, 'Can portholes be inserted into welded sheet / panels?
(at least I've learnt something.....   )

However -  I am trying to understand which comes first.
Is it the design of where the portholes will be situated - (Wouldn't this  affect all that follows?)
Or does the position of the welded joins of the the hull (panels) get planned first?

If it were the latter - then my question about portholes cut into an area that's been welded could still be relevant.
(because otherwise, mightn't portholes end up being randomly placed?!)

(hopefully this can all become clear - fairly soon!!)

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

The horizontal welds seem to run parallel to the portholes -- on none of my photos can I find them crossing a porthole.

The vertical welds, on the other hand, run where they need to run, whether or not they cross a porthole :



More pictures here :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/prondis_in_kenya/2238570985/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/prondis_in_kenya/3535021171/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/prondis_in_kenya/2706187582/

[Twynkle]

Isabelle - Thank you
That makes a lot of sense!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/prondis_in_kenya/3535021723/in/photostream/
This is a wonderful photograph;  a truly beautiful view. 


PS - methinks shell doors and hatches etc had better wait for the time being!

[Jem]

Am I correct in thinking that a weld is stronger than the sheet metal? In which case a welded joint would not be weakened by having a porthole cut?

Cheers.

[Mr B]

The weld should technically be as strong as the metal which is joined by it.
But many factors including temperature and moisture; impurities in the material being worked; surface contaminants such as rust, paint and oil; type of welding equipment actually used, ie: electric or gas; and of course skill of the welder, can all lead to a weld that is superficially fine but mechanically weak.  Welding is an extremely skilled art and takes many years of practice.

So, cutting through a good sound steel weld would be the same as cutting through a solid steel plate.

[Bob C.]

I found out how the portholes were cut!  Getty Images has a photo of a pneumatic porthole cutter working on Aquitania. Obviously, from the name, the portholes were cut in place into the installed (welded or riveted) steel plate.  I assume the tool used on QE2 was similar to the one used on Aquitania but updated in the 55 years between building the two ships.

Here's the link to the image - http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&assetType=image&p=2669277#

See this link for QE2's stern without portholes - http://www.clydebankrestoration.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=592

[Twynkle]

Hey Bob
What a find!
The second - the gallery is full of wonderful images, a great collection.
Thanks for posting.

[Chris Frame]

This is a shot of our last portholes from our Three Deck cabin.

Ours is the one with the "bon-voyage" card in it, and the one to it's right (our left when looking at it this way).

[Bob C.]

The next thing I need to figure out is how they managed to cut the rows in such straight lines. If I did it they would be quite askew!

[Twynkle]

Possibly by dropping plumb lines, and in QE2's case - many times...?
in this image it looks as if they started at the top and worked down!
http://www.clydebankrestoration.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=589
Note links not active

[Peter Mugridge]

What is the small vent hole near the left of the picture in #12 for?

[Bob C.]

I don't see a vent hole.  Picture 12 that I see is a bulbous bow on shot of Q4 just before launch with the bagpipe band to the lower left and what looks like the photographer's finger in the left and upper edges.

[Rob Lightbody]

Possibly by dropping plumb lines, and in QE2's case - many times...?
in this image it looks as if they started at the top and worked down!
http://www.clydebankrestoration.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=589

Thats an AWESOME Collection of photos - WOW!

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't see a vent hole.  Picture 12 that I see is a bulbous bow on shot of Q4 just before launch with the bagpipe band to the lower left and what looks like the photographer's finger in the left and upper edges.

I mean the picture in post #12 on this thread... 

[Bob C.]

Ah, now I see it. Most likely a drain of some sort, maybe for the A/C?

[highlander0108]

To add to this discussion, the portholes were originally aluminum!  Commodore Warwick had a slide on this in his lexture on QE2 memories.  He said that the portholes were originally aluminum to save weight.  Image the weight savings there, but there was a big problem.  Despite using material to isolate the aluminum from the steel hull in the same fashion as the hull/deck joint, these began to deteriorate.  They were eventually all replaced with the units currently in the ship.  A funny side note that he mentioned was that he had saved a few of the aluminum portholes up in his attic, but found them later completely disintegrated and the eBay items were a total loss, to his dismay!  Photo below was taken during his lexture on QE2 on the Farewell to the UK voyage.

[Rod]

The vent would be a drain. Correct if that was 3 deck it might have been a pantry drain. Depending on where the cabin was. A/c drains went into the general scupper system until later on in life when the a/c drains were used for laundry water.

"There is really only one riveted strip on the QE2 body, where the steel hull meets the aluminium superstructure."

I beg to differ.
I think you will find that the bilge keels were rivetted to the hull.

[Alistair]

Just came across this and loved the set of launch and sail-away pictures which i had never seen before. Very high quality colour pictures indeed as most of my memories from that day seem to be in black and white (and 405 lines too!) 

[Bob C.]

Take a look at the 3 sec mark in the video at this link.  Are the 1 Deck suite oval portholes in the process of being cut?

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/youth-on-q4/query/Clydebank