Sewage Treatment on the QE2

[skilly56]

Hi Rosie,

Re producing fresh water from sea water, without a high heat output from the main engines (ie, as in when she is tied up and there is no propulsion load), the main evaporators would not produce any fresh water, so the ship would need to have a heap of reverse osmosis plants fitted (she already has 2 I think) to make fresh water.

Peter, your question re siting the treatment plants in the holds etc, this could possibly be achieved, or they could even remove some of the lowest deck cabins to increase the space available for the extra auxiliary machinery. However, getting all the plumbing connected up would be a major. Most installations have all the treatment plants in one space to reduce pipework and duplication of systems (each treatment plant has to have duty pumping systems, then standby pumping systems, air blowers, chlorinators etc. So, if you can get everything in one compartment, the standby machinery can do duty on a number of treatment plants and not just one.

Reading the posts, it certainly looks like all you people had a fun time last weekend. I still have a lot I want to see in the UK, so, one day.........?

Skilly

[skilly56]

And having someone dump a chemical down on your hungry microbes would tick any engineer off!

I love it!

[Bob C.]

Believe it or not, limit for discharging black water (sewage) is only 3 miles - blech!  I found this hard to believe when I was a navigator but it's true.  There may be exceptions but I'm not aware of any off the top of my head.

[RmsAquitania]

I remeber during a very rough crossing of the bay of biscay in 2006 i think, the smell of sewage in the bathroom and cabin of our cabin on 4 deck was terrible, the tanks must have been nearly full then !

[cunardqueen]

I bet 1987 Captain Portet would be gobsmacked to see Norwegian Epic...

Hes not the only one !!!

Regarding this dumping at sea lark, l seem to remember on the Maiden Voyage in 87 a lot of stuff went over the side, Not least  a grand Piano case, well so the rumour mill suggested. When did the dumping at sea officially stop. All the left over food, was it also dumped discharged at sea. There used to be a joke that QE2 was followed by the best fed sharks ever.

[Twynkle]

Hi Skilly
About on the 'on board treatment of sewage'.
Just wondering (!)  - When did this become the usual / normal method of waste disposal?
Even with on board treatment, would it not still be the case that there would be some degree of corrosion?

On another point and possibly a bit off the wall here(!) - regarding the pipework in closed parts of the system,
has there ever been the use of stuff like furnox as used in domestic radiator systems?
Doesn't it seem strange that even in the Sixties - with preparing for Man to the Moon etc, that tanks and pipes were
seemingly still quite primitive in their construction? - (this is another question arising from a certain naivety!!)

Cheers

Rosie

[skilly56]

Hi Rosie,

I think sewage treatment plants were coming into ships from the early seventies. When Golden Bay was built in 1978-9, Robb Caledon threw in the sewage plant and the waste incinerator free, just to seal the contract and get the job. Having a sewage plant on board meant the toilets had to be fresh water flushed so pipe corrosion was virtually eliminated. The actual sewage treatment plant itself was replaced 2 years ago as the original 1979 Hamworthy Super Trident had corroded out in the various chambers and a new breed of hungry 'gremlins' was considered to be the way to go.

In the last 2 years, environmental agencies have really begun to crack down on ship discharges in most parts of the world, and discharges from sewage treatment plants now get regular checking and testing. And this means treatment plants onshore are also having their discharges checked and tested - no more poo pumping directly into the sea from long pipelines, in civilised countries anyway.

In days of old when I was younger (wish I could be again - the aches & pains are becoming more frequent!) I worked on the Aranda, (one of the 'Three White Sisters' owned by P&O, and they carried about 300 pax.) and can still remember unbolting and rotating the long near-horizontal runs of sewage piping through 180 degrees in the hope the worst corroded sections would last a bit longer. I didn't hang around to see if the theory worked or not, but the sewage was held in tanks down in the shaft tunnels, and, like QE2, was pumped out at sea.

As far as putting proprietary additives into water systems - one has to be very careful here. If you put anti-corrosive additives into main engine jacket water cooling systems, and these products are also poisonous, then a minute leak in a pipe where it connects to an evaporator system to make fresh water for human consumption (like QE2 does), can have catastrophic consequences for passenger health. I'm not familiar with Furnox, but a radiator system normally does not have cross-connection to potable drinking water systems, so there would be no dangers.

BTW, I'm on the big bird to Perth next Sunday.

Cheers
Skilly

[RobertQM2]

Hello from the Austrian engineer!
I had the rare chance to walk the whole lenth of a Vista's underwater belly (cellar) once. From stern (with all the engines) to bow. Apart from the engineering side it was most impressive to see the purification machinery where I could see my own sh.. trough a window of a rotating dryer and to be burnt later for heating purposes. There a mostly 2 and for very important systems there are 3 identical arrangements to be on the safe side (for example when a norovirus hits a vessel). Another interesting piece was a 6 compartment deep freezer for the poor corpses who couldn't manage it to the end of the cruise . So no heat is accumulated from these poor ones to heat the vessel
kind regards

[Chris]

Ok, so here's a question.

What are they doing in Dubai without the luxury of discharging at sea?

--

We saw Queen Victoria's sewage treatment filters during our tour of the engine room - from our side, clean and smell-free. The view inside the glass didn't look so clean... non degradable materials (eg: plastic) are magically separated from the rest and released into plastic bins (perhaps someone else can explain the magic behind this).

The photo (below) is of the vacuum flush devices (QE2 wouldn't have had these).

[Imonlygoingforone]

What are they doing in Dubai without the luxury of discharging at sea?

They'll either discharge into trucks, or into a barge when the tanks become full - I think they learnt a few hard lessons from the beginning with regards to this....

There was an incident on QE2 a few years ago in Rio where the sewage barge sank (not the ships fault may I add). The result was a submerged barge, with a blocked in QE2. It took a day or so to get a large enough floating crane to drag it out of position. I think it must have been around 2003/04...

[Peter Mugridge]

Separation of non-degradables is easy enough; centrifuges with meshes in them.

[Twynkle]

Are there any the facilities on QE2 to treat any waste at all?
For example, dry waste -  glass and tin etc
If not, then I wonder - on longer sea voyages, where was such stuff stored?

[Bob C.]

What are they doing in Dubai without the luxury of discharging at sea?

I would assume QE2 like other vessels has pierside connections for potable water, electricity, telecommunications and sewage dischage (the term of art is CHT - Collection, Holding and Transfer).  I'm also assuming that Dubai has these connections at QE2's current berth.

[Rob Lightbody]

As a follow up to this fascinating topic, I have been informed, by the way, that this was NOT going to be a show-stopper for QE2 in 2010.  There are workarounds and get-out clauses for older ships, that means they can sometimes duck regulations - and this was to be the case with this set of regulations.  It could also, incidentally, be the case in future if need be...

[cunardqueen]

The photo (below) is of the vacuum flush devices (QE2 wouldn't have had these).
 
  

Interesting point BUT in the C Six book by  Dr Nigel Roberts he tells the story of a well known person who while at the Drs party used was caught short and asked to use his toilet, rather than sucking the contents, it malfunctioned and went whoosh, he was in the toilet for quite some time and emerged some time later somewhat flustered to say the least.
 Though no name is mentioned l wondered if it was Jimmy Carter, that name seemed to be doing the rounds at that time, Well over 20 years ago.  
 The first time l experienced one of those contraptions was on a P&O ferry, in the confines of my own cabin and having observed the "warning please close the toilet seat before flushing" The above tale came racing back to me and l did what any decent,sane person would do, Closed the seat and stood on it while pressing the flush button. I felt enormously stupid doing such a thing and took comfort that no one would see me.. But what surprised me was the noise it made, had l not gone when l did l would have probably gone right then, mercifully they seemed to have tamed down since those days. But l still dont like them