QE2 - Bunkering, ballast and other messy matters!

[Twynkle]

Having  thought about QE2 and her engines - and seen photographs of mini tankers alongside,
smelt the oil, then only recently realised that most of her alleyways 'below' were probably formed by tanks of 'stuff'....
Is it true that if/when the oil levels get too low, it solidifies?
Then what happens?

Please may we talk about bunkering, ballast and other messy things?
Can't wait - !

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[cunardqueen]

Im interested in the ballast, If for example the ballast tanks are half empty, surely the motion of the ship would have them sloshing round and make the stability unsafe? And when taking on more ballast is this done in port or the wide open seas? 

When mentioning ballast l cant help but think back to the Poseidon Adventure and that scene 
And right now probably all my credibility   is out the widow....

[Beardy Rich]

Mmmmm... bunkering. Yep, done my fair share of that. Basically it was connect the pipe from the barge to the inlet pipe onboard. Check that it was OK for the barge to start pumping it through, open the inlet valve and hope for no leaks  

I doubt it would actually solidify in the tanks Rosie, but it was very thick in consistency... something akin to treacle/ syrup.
Before being used onboard, the fuel had to be pre-heated using steam to allow it to flow more readily. The watchkeeper in the Safety Control Room was in charge of this. It was imperative that 'tomorrows fuel' was heated for long enough to allow it to be used without any pumping problems. More later... and a story about what happened in Hong-Kong  

[Beardy Rich]

Im interested in the ballast, If for example the ballast tanks are half empty, surely the motion of the ship would have them sloshing round and make the stability unsafe? And when taking on more ballast is this done in port or the wide open seas? 

There's a story about this that I will tell you about later. Have to nip out now to pick up the missus from work.
Toodlepip!

[Peter Mugridge]

I would have expected ballast tanks to have large baffls in them to prevent the water sloshing around excessively?

[Jeff Taylor]

Speaking of ballasting, i did a westbound in  QE in 1968.  By the time we reached NY the ship has a sufficient list that you had to hold the handrails in the accommodation corridors.  I inquired about it and was told that legal disposal of seawater ballast was sufficiently expensive that Cunard took their chances without ballasting, and by the end of the crossing fresh water and bunkers were low enough that it wasn't practical to pump them from one side to the other.  Somewhat logical, but it still seems there should have been a solution.

[Beardy Rich]

I would have expected ballast tanks to have large baffls in them to prevent the water sloshing around excessively?

Hi Peter, I don't know if this was the case or not. Maybe someone else will know.

Back to bunkering... I can remember being in Hong-Kong (1986 World Cruise?) on bunker duty. I was almost ready to come off duty when Ben, my best mate onboard came into the bunker station to see if I was going ashore that night.
Ben worked in the Engineers Stores on 7 deck and liked to dress well when going ashore.

On this occasion, he was wearing a really smart cream/ivory blazer which I think he'd only recently purchased.
Now whilst the bunker stations are kept fairly clean and free of fuel spills, Ben just happened to rest his arm on what must have been the only piece of pipework that had a splash of fuel oil on it. Of course, I noticed what he'd done and remarked . "You're not going ashore looking like that are you?" Looking somewhat puzzled, I then explained that he'd better rush downstairs and find some swarfega to put on that ugly black stain on his jacket sleeve.
His face visibly paled and with a look of doom about him, he rushed off to try and save his jacket from being ruined.

Five minutes elapsed and Ben returned with a smug look and a wet sleeve. He'd managed to remove the stain completely.
I cannot remember if he actually used swarfega or not, but now it was my turn to get showered and changed before hitting the nightlife of Hong-Kong! Which is, as they say, another story.

[Beardy Rich]

Im interested in the ballast, If for example the ballast tanks are half empty, surely the motion of the ship would have them sloshing round and make the stability unsafe? And when taking on more ballast is this done in port or the wide open seas? 

I would have expected ballast tanks to have large baffls in them to prevent the water sloshing around excessively?

Saltwater ballast used to be taken on or discharged when at sea. Saltwater ballast could also be transferred between tanks to help right the ship (reduce listing) using a clinometer in the Safety Control Room for reference. The fuel oil could also be transferred between tanks to help the ship maintain this position. I cannot remember if freshwater transfers were used in this way or not.
I also don't know for certain if the ballast or fuel tanks incorporated baffles in their design, but I would presume this to be the case.

After I left the ship, I heard a story from someone who told me that during a really rough transatlantic crossing, the Chief Engr ordered that all ballast tanks be either pressed up tight (full) or empty to prevent 'sloshing'. This motion is actually called Free fluid motion. This fluid motion has capsized vessels in the past in certain circumstances.
A good way to demonstrate free fluid motion is to fill a large tray with water. When the edge is tipped slightly the water rushes to that side which compounds the problem even further.

[Twynkle]

O my word this is complicated!

So Rich - was there a sort of 'book of instructions' / aka tables that showed what measurements / levels were safe?
Transferring oil could have taken ages (on Queen Elizabeth's last voyage they almost had to dig it out!)
And I wonder - did oil and water or other substance get mixed by accident?

And - was there training 'on the job' as far as QE2 was concerned? 
For inexperienced engineers, keeping her 'safe' must have been just a bit challenging!
And about all those pipes - did these need to be coded for recognition?

(Pumps can wait...It's by far more interesting than I'd ever dreamed of - hope no-one minds all these 'simple' questions?!!)
Thanks so much.

[Beardy Rich]

Hi Rosie, yes you're right, the system was quite complex. There's a lot more to it than I know about for sure.
Transferring fuel oil took up most of the day when in Southampton or N.Y., especially if it was a 5 day transatlantic.
I have never known of any mix up of oil/water other than in the late 1960s when the boiler feed water became contaminated with fuel oil.
All of my training was 'on the job'. I never earned any proper technical qualifications whilst working for Cunard. I think my previous apprenticeship in the motor trade as a technician helped someway towards having some understanding of how and why things worked 'down below'. Most of the work involved common sense, safe working practices etc. The Engineering Officers were always on hand if any advice was needed. They had things under control.
The pipes (and there were literally miles and miles of them) were colour coded throughout the ship to denote contents, flow direction etc.
As I've mentioned to Skilly, if I had my time again, I'd become a marine engineer. I think I mentioned to you when we met that I had intended joining the R.N. after I left school but got 'cold feet'. I had every intention of signing up as an Artificer's Apprentice. Still, I can't grumble... I enjoyed my time in the motor trade but glad to be out of it now.

[Bob C.]

A good way to demonstrate free fluid motion is to fill a large tray with water. When the edge is tipped slightly the water rushes to that side which compounds the problem even further.

Another example is the onboard swimming pools (outdoor or indoor).  The instabilities (significant changes in the center of gravitiy) of the free surface effect (the name taught to me) moreso than the water splashing about is why they're drained in rough seas. 

[Twynkle]

Pennies dropping slowly here, Rich and Skilly!
So - although it's the waves / swell that are responsible for rocking say an empty boat,
thinking about QE2 - with free fluid motion (and the strength of any resistance?)
then might even the lightest/ least amount of swell significantly effect her 'balance'?
If it might - then, who does 'what' next?!
Might 'it' need to be done quite swiftly?
And  - say in the case of a squall - or freak wave, would changing something (other than direction, perhaps) be too late?
Having watched a cargo ship off Lisbon as she needed to heave to, did QE2 need to slow down and 'ride it out' when you were on board?

I wonder too - is it a case of the faster she goes, the less likely-hood there is of her rocking or listing - this could seem crazy,.... or not?!

(I still wonder about her wonderful ability not to keel over - lol!!) 

[Beardy Rich]

Another example is the onboard swimming pools (outdoor or indoor).  The instabilities (significant changes in the center of gravitiy) of the free surface effect (the name taught to me) moreso than the water splashing about is why they're drained in rough seas. 

Apologies Bob, your term (free surface effect) is correct. I just couldn't think what the correct term for sloshing liquid was when I posted.

[Beardy Rich]

Pennies dropping slowly here, Rich and Skilly!
So - although it's the waves / swell that are responsible for rocking say an empty boat,
thinking about QE2 - with free fluid motion (and the strength of any resistance?)
then might even the lightest/ least amount of swell significantly effect her 'balance'?
If it might - then, who does 'what' next?!
Might 'it' need to be done quite swiftly?
And  - say in the case of a squall - or freak wave, would changing something (other than direction, perhaps) be too late?
Having watched a cargo ship off Lisbon as she needed to heave to, did QE2 need to slow down and 'ride it out' when you were on board?

I wonder too - is it a case of the faster she goes, the less likely-hood there is of her rocking or listing - this could seem crazy,.... or not?!

(I still wonder about her wonderful ability not to keel over - lol!!) 

Hi Rosie, lots of questions there  I'm probably not the best one to answer these but I would suspect that QE2s speed through the water, with her stabilisers extended, would help an awful lot in keeping her upright, even when encountering a freak wave. On the other hand, I have recollections of slowing right down in heavy weather in some instances.
The transfer/discharge of saltwater ballast was one of the main jobs in the SCR and often required adjusting (presumably to ensure passenger comfort).

[cunardqueen]

(I still wonder about her wonderful ability not to keel over - lol!!) 

Thats a question l ask myself  a lot when you look at the Oasis of the seas and other such ships. and to a lesser extent the QM2. When you see them bow on they all look very top heavy. And just how far can they list before keeling over.

 I dont mind the pitching at all, But its the rolling motion that gets me, lm fine upto a certain level and while l would never say l ever felt uneasy with the rolling motion on QE2, its always at the back of my mind on any rough trip.. Just how far can she roll.

 It goes back to a nasty crossing when l was a teenager and during what can only be described as a hellish trip on the St Ola crossing the Pentland, we were half way across this notorious patch of ocean and as we took a nasty roll l really thought our number was up, then she rolled just a bit more and honest to god l thought  we will never recover from that, we did recover but the ship was in a bit of a state inside, lm not even going there with the spew bags (as we call them in Orkney)but the smell can only be imagined. Fair dues to the Captain he did warn us it would be  a lively crossing. It did put the fear of god up me. Shortly afterwards the ship was modified with extra tanks on the side.
 I suppose in rough seas the last thing the officers are doing is watching this swingometer thing... (onboard MSC Melody)