Author Topic: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)  (Read 7183 times)

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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« on: Dec 02, 2009, 11:14 AM »
...if so, I'd like to test something out.

I'm wondering what a classic style superstructure of the three stacker type, like the Normandie, would look like on a modern high efficiency hull like the QE2's.

If anyone could please try to put the Normadie's superstructure onto the QE2's hull to see if it "looks right" I'd appreciate it.

I'll explain the reason later, though some of you may have a pretty shrewd idea what I'm thinking....? :)
« Last Edit: Dec 28, 2009, 03:32 PM by Rob Lightbody »
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Offline Avariel

Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #1 on: Dec 02, 2009, 01:37 PM »
I'm not a Photoshop expert. But I don't mind giving your idea a try.

Do you have any links to good images of the Normandie? I have lots of QE2 photos but next to none of the Normandie.

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #2 on: Dec 02, 2009, 01:52 PM »
No, I haven't - but given that there are more of QE2 from all angles than of Normandie, I'd suggest finding a good one of Normandie then looking for a QE2 one from the same angle?

I'll have a look on Google; back in a minute...

*back*

Normandie image search results

I'm liking the first result ( top left corner ) but the angle is a bit lower than I had in mind; I think something from that viewpoint but more level with the main deck might be better?
« Last Edit: Dec 02, 2009, 01:56 PM by Peter Mugridge »
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Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #3 on: Dec 14, 2009, 02:49 PM »
First attempt at this and no expert either!!  ::)

I thought the best way would be to find two side profiles of the ships at roughly the same scale. The only ones I could find were profile drawings which is why they are not pin sharp.

I have grafted the superstructure of Normandie down to her sheer line onto QE2's hull form from the sheer line down(roughly). This obviously needed a bit of rescaling as Normandie was a longer vessel to begin with. Funnily enough when I manouvered the whole lot into place guess what? The Normandie bow tip fell into line pretty much spot on with QE2.

When you compare the original (1936) profile drawing of Normandie I have to say the whole thing doesnt look too disimilar - shows you how far ahead of her time she really was!!

I've posted the hybrid and originals in order to compare / contrast and I'll try to find some actual photos to do another version.

Finally - please dont zoom this too much as it will pixelate as the originals werent that high res to begin with!!  :-\

(Original Images Copyright Russel Parmerter)
http://www.oceanliners.us/Homepage.html

Hope this is what you were looking for!!
« Last Edit: Dec 14, 2009, 06:39 PM by Clydebuilt1971 »

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #4 on: Dec 14, 2009, 05:41 PM »
That looks pretty good; thank you - I'm just off home and I'll be back online later tonight; now I know that an older style superstructure works OK with a modern style hull, I'll be asking for a couple of ( minor ) changes to the superstructure.

Don't worry - you'll like what I've got in mind...  ;)
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Online Rob Lightbody

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #5 on: Dec 14, 2009, 06:16 PM »
Sorry to be a bore on this fascinating topic, but can we please quote a URL for the page where the images originally came from, and preferably check with Russel that he doesnt mind them being used in this way.

Thanks.
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Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #6 on: Dec 14, 2009, 06:37 PM »
Hi Rob,

I emailed Russell this afternoon and await his reply but I have offered to remove the images if he wishes. I'll also add the URL.

You're not being a bore - merely protecting the reputation of this forum which is exactly right!!

Gav

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #7 on: Dec 14, 2009, 11:08 PM »
If there is a problem with the use of the images, don't worry because there is one side on view of Normandie which I have found is cropping up all over the place on the web and so probably has no copyright issues; I'll mail it to Clydebuilt in a moment if he mails me asking for it ( as his e-mail is hidden ) in case it's needed.



Now... alterations to the design...  I'd like to add an extra deck or two to it, but without a France to Norway style mess resulting; I think the neatest way to do this would be to add one full length below the boat deck and one of a proportionate length above it?  Looking at the hybrid profile above, though, I'd guess we could only get away with one extra deck, which would probably have to be below the boat deck?

I'd like the overall height to stay the same, so the funnels would become slightly shorter ( but the same width ).

The result *should* be a sleek looking but classic styled express liner with an ultra-efficient high speed hull.



Now, where is all this leading?  Well, I'll be saying very shortly, but I suspect more than a few of you might have made an educated guess by now...? ;)
« Last Edit: Dec 14, 2009, 11:19 PM by Peter Mugridge »
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Offline Avariel

Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #8 on: Dec 15, 2009, 06:21 AM »
If there is a problem with the use of the images, don't worry because there is one side on view of Normandie which I have found is cropping up all over the place on the web and so probably has no copyright issues;
I think there might still be copyright issues involved even if the image appears all over the Internet.

The best thing to do might to be make a note as to the original source of the images - or at least mention the photographer.

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #9 on: Dec 15, 2009, 09:38 AM »
^^^^^

Couldn't find any clues as to where the image originated; it's the one I sent you last week - any ideas where it might have originated?

Then again, by the time we've finished with it there probably wouldn't be a lot of the original image left would there?! ;D



Edited at add:

Just had an idea... Clydebuilt, do you think this Russell could do the drawings for this instead of us repeatedly messing around in Photoshop to get it right? 


Having had another look at the hybrid, I think we need to make her slightly longer as well; can I ask is that hybrid the length of the QE2 or the length of the Normandie?  I'm thinking a slight stretch to close to the 1,100 ft of QM2...  ;)
« Last Edit: Dec 15, 2009, 11:08 AM by Peter Mugridge »
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Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #10 on: Dec 16, 2009, 01:08 PM »
Just a quick one to say that I received a very pleasant email from the copyright owner of the images I used for "Project Hybrid" and we are OK to do this.

Peter - I will attempt to do as you have asked over the next few days but the damn day job is getting in the way again!! Thanks for the Normandie image.

Hope this rests your concerns Rob.

Gav

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #11 on: Dec 16, 2009, 01:33 PM »
That's great, Clydebuilt.  Don't worry about how long it takes - it's pretty busy at this end as well ( as, indeed, I suspect it is for everyone at this time of year? ).

Hopefully it shouldn't take too many alteration sessions to get to where we are going with this...
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Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #12 on: Dec 22, 2009, 03:41 PM »
Festive Greetings Everyone!

Work on Project Hybrid has been going on apace - the results are below in a work in progress kinda format. There are two forward end versions and our hybrid is now quad screw and has an additional bow thrust added to cope with the additional length.

There is probably about another 2 hours or so work to balance the colours etc but these should give you an idea of the thinking behind this topic!!!

Merry Christmas!!!

Gav  :D

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here?
« Reply #13 on: Dec 22, 2009, 03:45 PM »
She looks very good, thank you.

Now, important question - which of the two superstructure front ends do you all prefer?
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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #14 on: Jan 07, 2010, 01:24 PM »
Right; time to reveal the point of this excercise!


What Clydebuilt has done here is, in fact, to create the concept outlines for a new class of Atlantic standard express liner.

No, I don't have any financing or plans in place or anything like that, I am simply a) proving that a modern high efficiency hull style won't look awful with a traditional style superstructure on top of it and b) making a few suggestions as to where such a liner could be used.

Firstly, I am aware of the many suggestions for building old style liners, though most of these do not appear to combine these two elements; some even contemplate a 100% old look, including the underwater part of the hull - in other words a replica; I think we all know why that wouldn't work in terms of fuel efficiency don't we?!

My suggestion, as above, puts the older look on a highly efficient and proven hull design.

I propose that these concepts are "True Queens"; whether Cunard or not is irrelevant - there is nothing to stop anyone else setting up a line and using the hitherto unused "Queen" names is there?  And it also follows that if you want to operate a year round line voyage service, you need a minimum of two ships ( to cover refits, maintenance etc at quiet times of the year ).

Where could you, these days, find a line voyage that could be made year round?

Well, actually there is one obvious possibility:

Southampton depart Wednesday afternoon.
Lanzarote Saturday morning.
Gran Canaria Saturday afternoon.
Madiera or Azores on Sunday.
Southampton arrive Tuesday afternoon.

Of course this requires an express liner as it needs a 30 knot average in a moderate sea; hence why the concept drawing has four propellors! :)

Now, that weekly circuit caters for the midweek to midweek holiday people while at the same time matching the Saturday to Saturday requirements of most hotels in the Canaries.  It allows the choice of doing the one week round trip as a holiday in itself, or a two week holiday with a week in the Canaries with no flying, no hassle.

A lady I work with owns a villa on Lanzarote and she thinks this is a very good idea and that it would work; think about it - if there's, say, 1800 to 2000 passengers that's really only the equivalent of 10 plane loads a week, so it only needs a small number of the Canaries market to switch.  It has the possibility of winning block booking deals direct from the main holiday operators as well.

Where would the second vessel work?  You could do a simliar itinerary with the Baleric ( spelling? ) islands couldn't you, with that kind of speed.

However, that's also a full year round market, so here's the beautiful bit - that justifies a third liner, which could cruise for eight months of the year on QE2 style itineraries, making use of the speed capability to go for the further away destinations within a given cruise length, and during the other four months cover the refit and maintenance work for the other two; there would always be two liners available to cover the two line voyages year round and the third doing cruises wherever and whenever for the rest of the time.

And, it so happens, that there is a nice, neat, naming coincidence as well:  We have three "True Queens" here, and there are three unused Queen names with the same letter: Anne, Alexandra and Adelaide.  So we could have some naming consistency as well, and refer to the liners as "A" Class Queens, which makes the marketing consistent as well; it also re-inforces to passengers that if they try one of the other routes they'll get the same quality across the board.

So, OK, it's not the traditional Atlantic run, but it is line voyages and it is a traditional appearance...

The difficult bit will be to raise the probable £2.5billion required......!!

But, still... your thoughts, please?
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Offline jdl

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #15 on: Jan 07, 2010, 10:56 PM »
I didn't like the first two concept drawings as I felt the proportions of the upper superstructure just didn't look right - it also made me fully appreicate how right the QE2's designers got it first time.

But the second two concepts are much better in my opinion, my money would be on the latter of the two as the QE2 style bridge/front end has the best overall fit.

I'm only prepared to invest £1.00 at the moment though!!

john

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #16 on: Jan 07, 2010, 11:13 PM »
Well, we had to do the drawings in stages - that way it's easier to see how it can be "tweaked" to get it right.  Trying to do everything at once would more than likely have taken longer in the end.

There is actually a third drawing with a very interesting modification to the funnels; hopefully Clydebuilt will be able to post it up soon.
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Offline jdl

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #17 on: Jan 07, 2010, 11:21 PM »
Peter,

Sorry, wasn't trying to be critical just my view on it  :)  My views are only worth a few pence at the best of times ;D

john

Offline Clydebuilt1971

Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #18 on: Jan 08, 2010, 05:18 PM »
I thought this might modernise the whole theme a bit and lend some lineage to it as well. I've only modified the QE front end version tho.

I do intend to redo the drawing with balanced colours etc at some point.

I think Peter thought I was getting a bit carried away at points!!!

Ach well - in for a penny in for a pound.

I hope you all enjoy looking and commenting as much as I enjoyed working with Peter to create this hybrid!!  ;)

Gav
« Last Edit: Jan 08, 2010, 05:20 PM by Clydebuilt1971 »

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #19 on: Jan 08, 2010, 10:08 PM »
Jdl, say what you like; it's a free country and in this particular discussion I would think that opinions on which drawing looks best are extremely valid.  :)

Gavin - thank you for putting up that one with the modified funnels. :)  And yeah, while I may be getting a bit carried away ( I have enough on my plate with my hovercraft project without taking on new True Queens as well! ) it is at least getting the idea out there into the public domain - and who knows...? :)
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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #20 on: Apr 20, 2010, 10:31 AM »
In the light of recent events, perhaps we should start seriously looking at this idea of mine!

Maybe not so far fetched after all?  Especially since Thompson ( I think it was ) have used a cruise ship this week to get people home from the Canaries or somewhere like that...
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Offline Mauretania1907

Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #21 on: Apr 20, 2010, 11:52 PM »
 ;D Three QE2 style funnels made me laugh. I can just see Scary Mary going yellow all over with a bad case of jealousy.

Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2010, 12:09 PM »
I still can't make up my mind which funnels I prefer; I think I favour the older style funnels rather than the QE2 style funnels, but what do you think?
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Offline Chris

Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2010, 01:22 PM »
QE2's funnel was never designed to be duplicated more than once on a ship, so on a dual funnelled ship, I prefer a older style stack.
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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2010, 02:09 PM »
QE2's funnel was never designed to be duplicated more than once on a ship, so on a dual funnelled ship, I prefer a older style stack.
I detest QE2's funnel being duplicate anywhere - even on QM2.  It was meant to be unique, a 1-off, extremely modern etc. etc.  Other ships should have their own functional funnels, even QM2!
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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: Any Photoshop experts here? (QE2/Normandie hybrid)
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2010, 02:17 PM »
Good point both of you.  It seems my favouring the older design of funnel is the right way to go about it, then?  Though you have to admit, surely, that the QE2 styled version is rather striking in appearance?

( And Rob, note one which of the three designs I did not put into the document I sent you 90 minutes ago! :)  )
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