QE2 Story Forum

General QE2 => Miscellaneous QE2 => Topic started by: Cruise_Princess on Apr 09, 2010, 08:36 PM

Title: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Cruise_Princess on Apr 09, 2010, 08:36 PM
Just watching the Ch 5 prog re HMS Endurance....apart from bringing back fabulous memories of when we met up with them on QE2 in Salvador en route to the Falkland Islands when the crew were invited on board and we had a fabulous night out on deck.....the intentions being that HMS Endurance would escort us down to the Falkland Islands ...alas it wasn't to be as they were called away on urgent duty in the Antartic...
Anyway....my point here is could QE2 qualify as an ice breaker? Could she do what HMS Endurance is doing?  Cut through the Antartic sea ice?  Just wondered as her hull is super strong and I know that the little Marco polo has an ice strengthened hull when she was built originally as the Alexander Pushkin....

I'm sure she could do it. easily....but whether she would have been allowed to with passengers on board could be a different matter,....we have sailed thru the 'ice fields in the  north  and south atlantic many times but sea ice is a different ball game....
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Bob C. on Apr 09, 2010, 08:48 PM
Off the top of my head, QE2's hull was designed for the North Atlantic. It has extra strength compared to today's cruise ships to handle heavy seas at higher speeds but breaking ice requires and entirely different approach. 

A true icebreaker is designed with an extra strong hull that rides up onto ice flows and breaks them with the weight of the ship rather than ramming into them head on.  QE2 could move ice out of her way but needed to move very slowly in order to prevent puncturing her hull. 

I'll do more research but will say for now that she was not designed to break ice.
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Mauretania1907 on Apr 10, 2010, 08:10 AM
I'm pretty sure not, an icebreaker's hull is an entirely different shape, and it would be wise for a passenger ship to avoid ice, because it's like hitting rocks. QE2 was surrounded by bergs one night when she was down at the Falklands and everyone on board was praying she would not collide with one!
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Bob C. on Apr 10, 2010, 01:22 PM
Good explanation and pictures here on icebreaker hulls - http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/tag/arctic-research/ (http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/tag/arctic-research/)

Also you will not find bulbous bows on ice breakers.  Even though QE2's is an early version and does not protrude as much compared to todays BB's, it still is subject to damage when pushing up against ice.  Even at slow speeds there are tremendous forces exerted on the skin of the ship.
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Cruise_Princess on Apr 10, 2010, 06:43 PM
Thanks BOB C!!  I just wondered.....
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: cos918 on Apr 10, 2010, 07:39 PM
QE2 does not have an ice breaking hull. Look at the modern supper ferries of the Baltic. The can punch through Ice. I was on the bridge of a ferry this Feb and we were going through about 1 to 2 foot of ice. The captain said they can go to to about 3 foot and that's there limit . What they have is an class A super Ice hull rating. This does not make them an Ice breaker. To give you an idea Artika the Russian nuclear ice breaker can just get through about 16 foot of Ice maxim.

John
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Rob Lightbody on Apr 11, 2010, 07:07 PM
Isn't there a classification for ship hulls that allows them to travel to cold waters, but less than an icebreaker?  I remember when that little adventurer cruise ship got holed by ice, they said it had a hull categorised for use there, but im sure it wasnt an icebreaker.
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Cruise_Princess on Apr 11, 2010, 08:52 PM
Isnt that like Marco Polo too Rob?  They have an ice strengthened hull but are not classified icebreakers.......as she too was built as a liner and spent an lot of her cruising years in Antartica though not necessarily breaking sea ice...as you say there must  be a classification of some sorts for this...
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Twynkle on Apr 11, 2010, 09:32 PM
Hello Everyone - and specially Cruise Princess,
If you can get Freeview 38 or SKY 154 digital TV- you might be interested in a programme about Mighty Ships tomorrow evening, 11.00pm till midnight - on the channel 'Quest'.
It's about the ice-breaker ', Henry Larsen', one of Canada's Coast Guard's vessels,
"on a mission to patrol the treacherous North Atlantic"!

Here she is - a fine looking Mighty wee ship
I wonder whether the shape of her forward mast really is a bit like QE2's mast. Perhaps it's imagination playing tricks!!
http://www.ccg-gcc.gc.ca/e0003342

I wonder whether she ever met QE2.....
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: cos918 on Apr 11, 2010, 10:56 PM
Isn't there a classification for ship hulls that allows them to travel to cold waters, but less than an icebreaker?  I remember when that little adventurer cruise ship got holed by ice, they said it had a hull categorised for use there, but im sure it wasnt an icebreaker.

Here you go . It explains all about the diffrent type of ice hull.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_class

John
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Cruise_Princess on Apr 12, 2010, 09:40 AM
Hello Everyone - and specially Cruise Princess,
If you can get Freeview 38 or SKY 154 digital TV- you might be interested in a programme about Mighty Ships tomorrow evening, 11.00pm till midnight - on the channel 'Quest'.
It's about the ice-breaker ', Henry Larsen', one of Canada's Coast Guard's vessels,
"on a mission to patrol the treacherous North Atlantic"!

Many thanks Twynks.....will try to look out for it .....if I stay awake that late   LOL!
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Michael Gallagher on Apr 14, 2010, 09:46 AM
Both Sagafjord and Vistafjord had ice-strengthened bows and both did not have a bulbous bow.
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: highlander0108 on Apr 18, 2010, 01:38 AM
The MV Athena, ex Stockholm of Andrea Doria fame, is remarkably still in service and has an ice strengthened hull, the very feature that contributed to her surviving the collision without sinking.  Here's an excellent writeup of the ship.
http://www.ssmaritime.com/Stockholm.htm
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Cruise_Princess on Apr 18, 2010, 11:26 AM
Think I managed to answer part of this topic the other night when watching the channel 5 programme Ice Patrol about HMS Endurance...They talked Ice breaker hulls and how they differ from others.

She has a Flat bottom..with a strengthened hull but right above the prow is a razor like  knife piece of steel...so that the ship actually floats  on top of the ice and this 'razor' cuts though it.....Amazing.....they must have known  I was asking...

Just wondering now that the fact she has a flat bottom  she  must roll more out on the seas?
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: pete cain on Apr 19, 2010, 03:31 PM
Maybe they very nearly found out , according to 'Tribute to a Queen'  John Maxtone Graham.( have just finished reading it)  whist they were sailing South to the Falklands,   on P100.    " Captain Jackson had been familiar with ice conditions through Canadas' Belle Isle Straights years ealier.
     Periodically through the night, at the risk of betraying QE2's position, he would flip on the radar for an instant, the further south they penetrated. On more than one occasion, he found QE2 was steaming blithly passed fleets of icebergs." ( shame the author doesn't tell us at what speed)
Title: Re: Can QE2 's hull be classed as an icebreaker?
Post by: Magic Pipe on Apr 20, 2010, 12:32 AM
Short answer - No, the QE2's hull was not remotely intended for ice breaking.

Longer answer - Let's get the thought of being an icebreaker out of our heads, and look at what it would take for the QE2 to be ice classed like a Baltic Ferry.  First off, the shape of her hull is wrong.  If you look at the bow of the QE2, the shell plating is pretty much vertical at the waterline.  This helps reduce slamming in heavy seas, but in order to break the ice, the hull needs to flare at the waterline near the bow.  This forces the packed ice downward as the ship moves forward.  The QE2's hull shape would bind up very easily and not be able to go anywhere.

The second problem is structural.  The QE2's hull is transversely framed.  What this means is that her shell plating is stiffened with vertically oriented frames.  Compare this to what one would ideally like to see in an ice classed ship, which is longitudinal framing.  Longitudinal framing consists of horizontal stiffeners between vertical web frames.  These longitudinal stiffeners provide for a side structure that is much stiffer than a transverse framing system.  In other words, moving through pack ice with a transversely framed ship can cause the shell plating to flex inward, while the longitudinally framed ship would be much more resilient.