QE2 Story Forum

Non-QE2 Area => Ships => Topic started by: Peter Mugridge on Feb 14, 2010, 10:00 PM

Title: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Feb 14, 2010, 10:00 PM
I have received this in an e-mail forwarded to me today by someone who gets the Marinestore mailings.

Why are so many important "last of" vessels all falling under thread in such a short space of time recently?
 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

An Appeal:

This is not one of our usual emails; we are supporting the Paddle Steamer Ryde Trust in their efforts to prevent the dismantling of PS Ryde, a vessel that some of our older subscribers may have had to avoid in the Solent many years ago!
 

( Picture of the hulk not posted due to the copyright reasons below, however images can be found here: http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=paddle+steamer+ryde+hulk&gbv=2&aq=f&oq= and the first two look like the same picture used in the e-mailing. )


The hulk of the paddle steamer Ryde at the Island Harbour Marina on the River Medina between Newport and East Cowes. Launched in 1937 and now abandoned, she operated ferry services between Portsmouth and Ryde until the 1960s.

  © Copyright Kevin Flynn and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence
 

You may wish to add your name to a petition as part of a last ditch attempt to halt the scrapping of this iconic vessel. The P.S. Ryde was laid down for the Southern Railway in 1936 and for many years operated the Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde Pierhead route. We are sure that many of us will have sampled her delights!

For some time the PS Ryde Trust has been endeavouring to purchase the vessel for preservation and restoration but after promising progress negotiations have broken down and dismantling has started. A long shot, but a web-petition is active aiming to halt the scrapping, and if you feel that this is a worthy objective, you may wish to "sign" the petition which can be found at

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/PSRyde/

The petition closes on 2 March.
 

PS Rob - she was built at Dumbarton, not a million miles from, err... what's that other shipyard...?!
 
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clyde Paddler on May 21, 2010, 10:42 AM

Oh dear, I hadn't realised she was looking quite as bad as this link shows :

http://hhvferry.com/blog/category/blog-posts/

I think I would have to agree with their sentiments, that there can be no come-back from here.  A sad demise for another Denny vessel on which my grandpa Strachan had input in the construction  :'(
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on May 21, 2010, 10:57 AM
HMG rejected the petition - the official response gushed on about those other historical vessels which are preserved, like the Cutty Sark, Great Britain and so on.

Which completely missed the point of the petition in the first place!
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Twynkle on May 21, 2010, 11:14 AM
Here she is as she was...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/hampshire/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8523000/8523917.stm
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Jem on May 27, 2010, 02:48 AM
Sad end for this Paddler PS Ryde.......http://www.solentwaters.co.uk/JAlbumnews/Recentnews/slides/psryde.html#picttop

Thanks to Tony's site.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Bob C. on May 27, 2010, 02:09 PM
There is a paddle steamer in this photo I took during the International Fleet Review in June of 1977.  Its a bit small (and a stern view) but can anyone identify it?  Given PS Ryde is from the Isle of Wight and the review took place in the Solent, I'm wondering if this could be her.

Click here to see a larger version - https://www.flickr.com/photos/33120597@N03/4623402658/
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Twynkle on May 27, 2010, 03:37 PM
Hi Bob,

Looks as if PS Ryde wasn't there, however - PS Balmoral was there and so was  Favourite - Naval paddle steamer tug!
http://www.pictureships.com/Img/Photogalery/14/ipage00016.htm

Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on May 27, 2010, 03:52 PM
There is a paddle steamer in this photo I took during the International Fleet Review in June of 1977.  Its a bit small (and a stern view) but can anyone identify it?  Given PS Ryde is from the Isle of Wight and the review took place in the Solent, I'm wondering if this could be her.

Click here to see a larger version - https://www.flickr.com/photos/33120597@N03/4623402658/

Hi Bob,

The tug in question is a Director class paddle tug - one of a class of seven built on the Clyde 1957-58 to service the then new fleet of aircraft carriers. They were diesel electric propulsion and were very manouverable. Their lack of air draft allowed them to get in underneath the overhanging bows of the carriers.

The class were named as follows:

Director, Dexterous, Faithful, Forceful, Griper, Grinder & Favourite.

For more pics and information goto http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/search.asp (http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/search.asp) - if you type paddle tug in the "Ship Type" box and then scroll down to the bottom of the resultant list you will see all seven director class tugs.

I've also attached a photo from my collection of the first of class -  RMAS Director. I think this may have been a Yarrows trials photo.

Hope this is of help!!  :)
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Bob C. on May 27, 2010, 06:16 PM
The info on this website never ceases to amaze me.  Thanks Clydebuilt for closing the circle on this!
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Jun 25, 2010, 11:51 PM
I've been advised the PS Ryde has been given a ( two month??? ) stay of execution for a last ditch attempt to save her.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 15, 2018, 11:08 PM
By a miracle, the Ryde is saved... and article in the current issue of Steam Railway magazine ( issue 486, page 25 ) states that work on salvaging her has just begun, that she has been found to be stronger than thought and that it is hoped to move her from her present location in July 2019.

She will need to be dismantled and moved in sections.

The current situation is that specialist ship restoration company Siward and Co are in the final stages of negotiation to acquire her and that discussions are taking place with regard to obtaining all the necessary licences for the actual physical work.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on Nov 16, 2018, 01:36 PM
By a miracle, the Ryde is saved... and article in the current issue of Steam Railway magazine ( issue 486, page 25 ) states that work on salvaging her has just begun, that she has been found to be stronger than thought and that it is hoped to move her from her present location in July 2019.

She will need to be dismantled and moved in sections.

The current situation is that specialist ship restoration company Siward and Co are in the final stages of negotiation to acquire her and that discussions are taking place with regard to obtaining all the necessary licences for the actual physical work.

Hi Peter,

Siward were effectively crowd funding for the £5k needed to apply for the necessary permits and take ownership of the vessel. They reached their target earlier this week.

This is the first stage in a very long process to get what is effectively a hulk moved. The Medway Queen Preservation Society succeeded in getting Heritage Lottery money to build a new riveted hull for the ship around 10 years ago and as a far as I am aware Siward intend to explore that route also but despite there being "previous" I think that another avenue of funding will be required as HLF are unlikely to provide funds to rebuild another paddle steamer as their criteria for funding has changed massively since Waverley and Medway Queen were granted money - PLUS they have recently declined ps Maid of The Loch - a much much more viable project than Ryde.

When I was on PSPS National Council ten years ago we did look at Ryde with a view to preserving her main engines but her hull(which was in better condition than it is now) was already in poor condition at that point. PSPS decided not to move forward with anything as there was nowhere at the time in a position to store / display the engines had they been removed plus an example of Denny Bros triple expansion diagonal engine exists (removed from ps Caledonia after her devastating fire on the Thames in 1980) - Ryde's are of the same design (Brock Valve gear etc etc)

ps Caledonia Engines (https://www.paddlesteamers.org/wessex-dart/hollycombe-ps-caledonias-engine/)
ps Caledonia (http://www.paddlesteamers.info/Caledonia33.htm)

Whilst I wish Siward the very best of luck (I know Lisa Turner - the MD) they will need to put forward a really good case for the ship to get people / organisations to fund her restoration.

Gav
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 16, 2018, 11:19 PM
That's interesting that you know the right person, Gavin.  Is it possible that you could ask just how accurate the article in Steam Railway is?  It's usually a very reliable and spot on source, so it would be interesting to compare what they said with what the situation actually is right now.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on Nov 19, 2018, 01:13 PM
Hi Peter,

I met Lisa on a CRSC (Clyde River Steamer Club) outing round Arran on Calmac ferry mv Isle of Arran in January and we have been in touch a couple of times since.

I know that she is on IoW just now but I'll drop her a line and ask if she could give me some words to post here about future plans etc.

A lot of my contacts came from being involved with Waverley and Balmoral Peter and I feel lucky and privileged to know so many!

Watch this space.... :)

Gav
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 19, 2018, 11:15 PM
If she's on the Isle of Wight right now, I would hazard a guess that she is there as part of the negotiations mentioned in Steam Railway...?


Lest anyone should wonder why a railway magazine is reporting on this, the connection is of course the former ownership of the P.S. Ryde.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Nov 22, 2018, 02:15 PM
I am not holding my breath ...... unless someone can convince me that I should
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: June Ingram on Nov 23, 2018, 06:06 PM
Agree with Peter that validation of information would be most appreciated if it is possible to obtain same.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Nov 23, 2018, 11:58 PM
Here's a post on FB from Lisa this evening. The pictures and videos from this week make very grim viewing though :


Quote :

Here are a few sneak peeks at Ryde I took the other day when I went on board.

We will be making an exciting announcement very very soon! Be patient, timing is everything
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 24, 2018, 12:00 AM
That sounds positive and hopeful...?
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Nov 24, 2018, 12:02 AM
Paying for the ship is the easy part. I hope she knows what she is letting herself in for
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Nov 24, 2018, 12:06 AM
I was last on Ryde 29 years ago - and she was in a pretty bad state then !
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Nov 28, 2018, 12:10 PM
Lisa has posted on FB this morning that the contract to buy PS Ryde has been signed

Reading the post, it is not entirely clear whether the amount raised so far in the crowdfunder is for the ship outright - or just the first instalment .......
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 28, 2018, 10:18 PM
Either way... this is a development that most of us never expected to see... :)
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on Nov 30, 2018, 09:07 AM
I received an email from Lisa this week replying to my request for some more information to post here.

The jist of it is as follows:

"Things moved progressively well the other day and we have now entered a contract to remove the vessel within 24 months."
"She will be removed in sections but we would like to retain as much as possible although she is very frail her back is not broken.
"Her engines are the heart and she will have them removed and put into a new hull incorporating as many original steel fittings as possible."
"She will be returning to sea going paddling and will do excursions on the Solent and around the UK "

One large issue I can see is that Lisa told me a little while ago that Ryde is full of asbestos which will have to be removed before any contractor would touch her.

Call me cynical (and I hope it isn't the case) but I think the current owners have won a watch as Friends of PS Ryde are effectively paying them for the vessel and then funding it's removal from their land - that's a win win no matter what way you look at it!

There was no information as to how any of this would be funded etc etc. so I guess we wait and see what happens.

An HLF application (IMHO) wouldn't be viable as they've already "been there" with Medway Queen (ie new hull etc) and in the process effectively scuppered any chance of the vessel ever getting a passenger certificate again by insisting on an all riveted hull so if she were to get back in steam Medway Queen would only be able to take a max of 12 pax.

Her engines are in OK condition but are not unique in that (as stated above) ps Caledonia's engines were saved after the fire. Ryde's are just a smaller version of the same design.

As I say - we wait and see......

Gav
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: June Ingram on Nov 30, 2018, 04:16 PM
Many thanks, Gav, for the info.  I do hope things work out !
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 30, 2018, 05:01 PM

"Her engines are the heart and she will have them removed and put into a new hull incorporating as many original steel fittings as possible."

Now that sounds like it's pretty much along the same principle that allows a virtually brand new Spitfire to be called a restoration and given the original registration and airframe history as long as it contains at least some original components?
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Thomas Hypher on Nov 30, 2018, 05:47 PM
Now that sounds like it's pretty much along the same principle that allows a virtually brand new Spitfire to be called a restoration and given the original registration and airframe history as long as it contains at least some original components?

A very tenuous use of the definition of "restoration" at best, that has often made me think whether they are actually preserving the spirit of the thing that's "restored" or if it just becomes some sort of facsimile through the restorer's interpretation and therefore not the same in "feel" or spirit which is surely the whole point? At what point does one say the thing is a replica instead? The thing potentially being an aircraft, steam locomotive, ship etc etc.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Nov 30, 2018, 11:22 PM
That's a good question - certainly in the case of the Spitfire restorations you only need very little indeed of the original for it to count...

In the field of railway preservation it is highly unlikely that very much of any locomotive in a museum is actually original; it was common practice to swap components at overhauls - a steam locomotive traditionally takes its identify from the frames so in may cases the frames may be all that's left of the original and sometimes even those have been re-plated!  Pretty much a case of "Grandfather's axe" ( Or Trigger's Broom! )

So... in the case of the Ryde... it sounds to me like it'll be the original machinery in a brand new hull but with a few original hull components included?  Seems a very similar scenario to me?
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Bruce Nicholls on Dec 01, 2018, 11:56 AM
Grandfather's axe!
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Thomas Hypher on Dec 01, 2018, 08:48 PM
Just found this which sums this question up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 03, 2018, 04:56 PM
Whatever anyone might think the chances of Ryde being rebuilt are, I never see any reference to what she will do once she has been ... until Gavin's post above

Paddling around the Solent and around the UK doing excursions does not appear to be a sensible business proposition ......unless your pockets are deep and big losses are no worry
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Thomas Hypher on Dec 03, 2018, 09:24 PM
Paddling around the Solent and around the UK doing excursions does not appear to be a sensible business proposition ......unless your pockets are deep and big losses are no worry


Is this partly due to already existing "competition", for lack of a better word, in the form of Waverley and the other preserved old ships such as Shieldhall? Can the "preserved old ships in seagoing condition" market be oversaturated? I understand Ryde's situation with having to be completely rebuilt and the rules and regs that go along with that complicate things a lot too, perhaps making it questionable from a business point of view.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Dec 03, 2018, 09:38 PM
Any market can become over saturated if enough people start going into it.  If they are careful they should be able to fit in but I would certainly start wondering if there were any further vessels in the market later on.

In the case of Ryde herself, it does occur to me that the running costs may be lower than otherwise as it would in effect be a brand new vessel so the maintenance requirement may not be quite so intensive for at least the first few years.  That would obviously help, and again for the first few years there would be a rarity / novelty value that would boost demand somewhat.

The biggest risk would probably be bad weather wiping out a season - the last thing they would need weather-wise would be a summer like 2012 early on in the vessel's life.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 03, 2018, 10:12 PM
Well, as a student of this sector of the market, one can only say that Waverley is a complete anachronism which has survived through remarkable circumstances (and she has a lot going for her) but still chalks up major losses each year

Balmoral has always been a financial disaster

Shieldhall survives (just) because her costs are cut to the absolute bone to the extent that it is completely volunteer managed and operated, but she cannot generate a surplus to pay for her annual (or in her case, it seems) bi-ennial dry docking.  Mystifyingly, the cost for this has traditionally been much lower than for Waverley or Balmoral and I would love to know why ..... but they have to make a public appeal to pay for it

Large ship coastal cruising is, unfortunately not a business, it is a hobby where you hope to sell tickets to others to pay for as much of it as possible ..... but in the end have to keep paying for it out of your own pocket

I can't see Ryde being any different.  Waverley does OK on the Solent during her short visits. Balmoral's financial performance there has been disastrous. I can't see Ryde covering her operational costs let alone generate finance towards any maintenance, especially if she employs a full-time crew and a central office with employees
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 04, 2018, 12:02 AM
It's not the fact that these are heritage ships which is the problem - it is the excursion business itself. Had there been a business, someone would be providing it - with ships suitable for the job in hand. Waverley's owners are trying their best although they have lost the core ferry business which sustained her as part of the Caledonian fleet. That doesn't mean that there is no ferry business on the Clyde. There is - and much more so than ever before

Smaller "boat-trip" boats survive in many places, of course - but survive on minimum costs and are based on smallish passenger numbers

It takes somewhere special and special circumstances for large heritage ships like Waverley to survive in any form - and even then not really as independent operations. The lakes in Switzerland are a case in point, but apart from the Alps, there are few places in Europe with anything remotely like the conditions needed for such ships to survive sustainably outside larger fleets. With few exceptions, most operate along the lines of Shieldhall

Places like the Solent are also very well off for ferries - ie what the paddlers did in times gone by so there is no loss of trade in total. It seems that those with money who fancy something different just buy their own yacht or cabin cruiser nowadays
 
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Rob Lightbody on Dec 04, 2018, 06:45 PM
Somebody from this forum argued with me forcefully about this.

BUT

I feel that a classic paddle steamer (like this one) but converted to the most modern propulsion system possible, would be a good idea.  It could still work the same way - the paddles and the central powerplant - but not steam.  Youd still get the lovely paddling sound from up top, it would look the same, and to all intents it would function the same.   Perhaps you could fit a device that still let it have a steam whistle. If you could dramatically reduce the fuel consumption by adpopting decades of efficiency improvements, you'd give the ship a better chance of turning a profit and surviving.

QE2 changed from Steam to Diesel-electric after all - yes she may have lost a bit of something, but did she stop being what she was?
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Rob Lightbody on Dec 04, 2018, 06:46 PM
Well, as a student of this sector of the market, one can only say that Waverley is a complete anachronism which has survived through remarkable circumstances (and she has a lot going for her) but still chalks up major losses each year

Balmoral has always been a financial disaster

Shieldhall survives (just) because her costs are cut to the absolute bone to the extent that it is completely volunteer managed and operated, but she cannot generate a surplus to pay for her annual (or in her case, it seems) bi-ennial dry docking.  Mystifyingly, the cost for this has traditionally been much lower than for Waverley or Balmoral and I would love to know why ..... but they have to make a public appeal to pay for it

Large ship coastal cruising is, unfortunately not a business, it is a hobby where you hope to sell tickets to others to pay for as much of it as possible ..... but in the end have to keep paying for it out of your own pocket

I can't see Ryde being any different.  Waverley does OK on the Solent during her short visits. Balmoral's financial performance there has been disastrous. I can't see Ryde covering her operational costs let alone generate finance towards any maintenance, especially if she employs a full-time crew and a central office with employees

Thanks for your knowledgable contributions - very interesting and enlightening to me.

Please can you say why Balmoral has always been a financial disaster?  She's such a lovely ship - and surely she's more efficient than Waverley, isn't she??
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 04, 2018, 08:38 PM
Hi Rob

The diesel conversions on Lake Geneva are very nice and very efficient - and due to their relatively low operating costs get heavy usage - similar to many of the diesel units in the fleet. They are not bad to sail on at all ..... but something is definitely missing with them. They are part of a large fleet (with four genuine paddle steamers amongst it) and are not "destinations" in their own right.  Ryde would have to be

The thing about running Ryde on diesel-electric/hydraulic would be that the Heritage Lottery Fund would never support it

Balmoral's fuel cost is about half that of Waverley and her crew is a bit smaller, so in theory she should, if placed on Waverley's routes instead of Waverley, be an improvement at least in terms of business cost - but would she earn the revenue?  Certainly not as attractive a vessel and on the Clyde, a vessel without much recognition and no heritage.  Even recent year's end of season few days on the Clyde under Balmoral Fund ownership / White Funnel operation were a disaster from a customer count point of view, whilst Waverley end of season weekend (if she manages to get home in time from the south) are very well patronised

So, as she can't be on the Clyde in high summer, her other operating areas really aren't suitable for the type of service she is trying to offer. Consistently high demand for excursions is not there. There are no heaving resorts to sail to (that can't be accessed by car anyway) or from.  Waverley excursions ran her for many years and the benefits she provided were not financial - but important in other ways. She was operating in less than optimal areas and latterly was losing so many cruises to weather etc etc. At best she covered her operating costs, but contributed little to Waverley Excursions' central overheads and in some years her operating costs had to be subsidised. Latterly these became unsustainable and the charity commission could not allow charitable funds to be drained off to support her and it became impossible for the Waverley business to survive at all if it had to carry these costs

Waverley management were very adamant that the Solent, although on the face of it, a good area for potential traffic, was no place for Balmoral because she just wouldn't work there. Even BFL in their short life had to pull their Solent programme !  I'm not sure that Ryde would be any more popular

Balmoral Fund Ltd thought that if they operated the ship without the dead hand of a remote and disinterested management in Glasgow, they would make a better fist of it. As it turned out, although they tried hard and get full marks for their great stab at making customers happy, they could not achieve any better result. Trying to plug Waverley's losses what with a large following of paddle steamer enthusiasts and PSPS as an organisation is hard enough. Balmoral having to do the same is even harder for them
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 04, 2018, 09:20 PM
Waverley actually isn't a very good vessel for the modern day. Interesting for sure, beautiful (in most people's eye) yes - but only good when the weather is good and even then you have to generally have to want a bit of a sea breeze if you are outside. Balmoral is worse - so too Ryde if rebuilt as Ryde was

Her internal accommodation is not very extensive and most is down low with not much opportunity to look out at the scenery. Even the lower bar port holes are just at the water line - and high up so you can't see out 
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on Dec 05, 2018, 01:17 PM
Great posts Tramscape however I wouldn't just focus on the ship's shortcomings when it comes to Waverley. WEL are a disgrace IMHO in the way they market her (or don't market her) and the experience (or lack thereof) they provide on board for the money they are charging. Their customer service is terrible too - I wonder how many first timer travellers never come back as a result of one or all of the above.

Don't get me wrong - I adore Waverley and I know her intimately (well post HLF rebuild and at least from an engineering point of view) due to the enjoyable time I spent volunteering on her during winters.

Sure Waverley is a hugely expensive beast to run. Even when I was on PSPS council she was in excess of £5k per day to run but no one seemed to be focussed on how to look at changing how she was operated (ie shorter days etc etc) - WSN were more interested in raiding the PSPS coffers!

I fear Ryde would suffer a similar issue......

I love Balmoral - she is a great wee ship but when compared to Waverley she loses out as to most shes just another little motorship whereas the paddler is very different.

I wonder what the next move will be re: Ryde - from what I'm seeing on Facebook etc I predict an eleventh hour "pull out" sadly - which is going to trigger a huge backlash on Friends of PS Ryde.

Rob mentioned QE2 not really changing her personality when she was converted. I'm guessing there would not be too many people that worried about what was turning the propellers on her - as long as they turned! QE2's essence would be in what she offered her passengers etc rather than what method of propulsion was in the ER.

So we watch the Ryde situation with interest...........

Gav
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 05, 2018, 01:26 PM
Gavin - I thought I should just address the specific question here ........ or else we get into a whole new ball game

I, of course, am pretty well known by many in paddle steamer circles - and the three mentions I get in the minutes from the PSPS AGM earlier this month show that, whilst I am eloquent on the internet, I also make sure I am heard by the Council !   

Regarding steam v motor, there seemed to be no real concern when the last steam cruise ships went a few years ago. If you don't see the engines, you don't really care - and that must be the case for most cruise passengers. It is different on paddle steamers. Some don't care of course, but many are captivated by the engines ..... and of course, the selling point to the public (in the absence of real comfort and service) has to be the heritage and the old technology. This of course is the raison d'etre for Waverley as she would not have got Millenium Rebuild cash otherwise ... and she won't get the money she needs next time (which is coming upon us quickly now !)

Gordon S
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on Dec 05, 2018, 01:37 PM
Gavin - I thought I should just address the specific question here ........ or else we get into a whole new ball game

I, of course, am pretty well known by many in paddle steamer circles - and the three mentions I get in the minutes from the PSPS AGM earlier this month show that, whilst I am eloquent on the internet, I also make sure I am heard by the Council !   

Regarding steam v motor, there seemed to be no real concern when the last steam cruise ships went a few years ago. If you don't see the engines, you don't really care - and that must be the case for most cruise passengers. It is different on paddle steamers. Some don't care of course, but many are captivated by the engines ..... and of course, the selling point to the public (in the absence of real comfort and service) has to be the heritage and the old technology. This of course is the raison d'etre for Waverley as she would not have got Millenium Rebuild cash otherwise ... and she won't get the money she needs next time (which is coming upon us quickly now !)

Gordon S

Agree 100% - I think most think Waverley is still just out of rebuild - the first phase was almost 20yrs ago!

Gav
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: tramscape on Dec 05, 2018, 03:35 PM
They are working on 2022 for the job, I believe

It won't be anywhere near as big as last time - and I am dead sure that HLF will only (with luck) fund certain essential things this time
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Peter Mugridge on Feb 04, 2019, 10:40 PM
Well... there is an update in the latest Steam Railway out this week and it is not good news.

Over Christmas, the bridge area suffered three separate collapses on different days and bits are now literally falling off the ship on a daily basis.

As a result of this sudden deterioration, they have thrown in the towel and abandoned the project - but it is still hoped to salvage the engines.
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Clydebuilt1971 on Feb 05, 2019, 07:59 AM
I'd heard that had happened - I think there are a lot of upset people who donated to the crowd funding by Siward but as far as I am aware that will be either put towards obtaining her main engines or donated to Medway Queen or similar.

On the subject of Ryde's engines - whilst I am a fan of steam propulsion - as stated elsewhere in this topic the engines from ps Caledonia (built in 1934 by the same yard as Ryde) were salvaged after the fire that destroyed the ship at her berth on the Thames in 1980. They have been in a museum for years but are not on display and covered in red oxide style paint. Ryde's engines are merely smaller versions of Caledonia's. Perhaps if another preservation organisation could get them they would be able to do something different with them.

Siward are also involved in the restoration and potential return to the Thames of HMS President - the last surviving WWI Q Ship.

Gav
Title: Re: PS Ryde : last ditch "save it from scrap" appeal
Post by: Thomas Hypher on Feb 06, 2019, 06:21 PM
Well... there is an update in the latest Steam Railway out this week and it is not good news.

Over Christmas, the bridge area suffered three separate collapses on different days and bits are now literally falling off the ship on a daily basis.

As a result of this sudden deterioration, they have thrown in the towel and abandoned the project - but it is still hoped to salvage the engines.


Sad, and sad she was allowed to deteriorate into a derelict condition in the first place.