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Author Topic: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...  (Read 15531 times)

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Offline Rob Lightbody

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The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« on: Apr 26, 2010, 06:41 PM »
I have added a comprehensive new page to the main website.

Go to - https://www.theqe2story.com/1987Concepts/ to see it.



Absolutely fascinating material, as Cunard contemplated what to do with QE2's interiors (and exteriors) at the same time as the radical and very expensive re-engining was going ahead.
« Last Edit: Feb 19, 2013, 06:35 PM by Rob Lightbody »
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Offline Andrew Collier

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #1 on: Apr 26, 2010, 06:48 PM »
Awesome insight, can't believe this has been kept hidden for so many years!

Can't quite get my head around it all, it's a whole new QE2!!!!

Some of it looks good, but i'm really glad some of it didnt happen, gonna go read it all more thoroughly....

....Cheers  8)
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Offline matdark

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #2 on: Apr 26, 2010, 07:22 PM »
wow... glad it never happenend, especially externally! what's THAT funnel??

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #3 on: Apr 26, 2010, 08:19 PM »
Re-fit took place just after I left the ship and I had no idea of these plans. Fantastic insight. Thanks

Offline Cruisemarsh

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #4 on: Apr 26, 2010, 08:25 PM »
Interesting to see the plans.  :o

I am so glad that it didn't happen as it would have spelt the end of the line for the ship then as the overall look of her would have been spoiled beyond repair. The funnel would have look hideious and unsightly and the interior plans don't look any better. Thankfully they choose the right type of funnel in the end and there was no radical change of the overall plans of the ship.
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Offline cunardqueen

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #5 on: Apr 26, 2010, 08:37 PM »
Exciting stuff there !! Especially the new look for the A stairs.. would have looked good if they had followed through on the rest of the stairwells with the same design with the name on the carpet/staircase, a throwback to the Queen Mary?
** OLD DEAD LINK REMOVED **img8/3443/hotelqueenmary508.jpg[/img]
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Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #6 on: Apr 26, 2010, 08:52 PM »
I like quite a few elements of it... i like the A-stairway upgrade with the wee dedicated penthouse lift, i even like the idea of the QG & QG lounge being at the front, and i think the new windows for them across the front of the ship would have improved her looks.  I think the curtains to block out the shops in the grand lounge was a good idea too.. i'm still mulling over the rest of it.
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Offline Cruisemarsh

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #7 on: Apr 26, 2010, 09:12 PM »
I honestly think Cunard breathed a sigh of huge relief that they went with the option they did, otherwise it wouldn't be the QE2 that we grew to love and adore.
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Offline Peter Mugridge

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #8 on: Apr 27, 2010, 12:13 AM »
Very interesting about the proposed Queen's Grill location, particularly the windows...



As for that funnel, thank goodness they didn't - in that rear three quarters angle view of the ship from above, that proposed funnel design looks like something extremely rude! :o
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Offline highlander0108

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #9 on: Apr 27, 2010, 12:31 AM »
I like quite a few elements of it... i like the A-stairway upgrade with the wee dedicated penthouse lift, i even like the idea of the QG & QG lounge being at the front, and i think the new windows for them across the front of the ship would have improved her looks.  I think the curtains to block out the shops in the grand lounge was a good idea too.. i'm still mulling over the rest of it.

With the windows in the front, she looks very much like QM2 in the rendering.  If there was one feature the ship lacks, is forward looking rooms.  I welcome the day I will be on QM2, sitting in a chair in the Library, overlooking the bow.  Regarding the funnel, it is obvious that this was not yet coordinated with the re-engining aspects which necessitated the fatter funnel to conceal al the new mechanicals.  Fastinating post!
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Offline Bob C.

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #10 on: Apr 27, 2010, 04:08 AM »
Some really good ideas as well as some really horrible ones.  I would have liked to see the removal of the mystery box to bring back a proper lounge/restaurant and thus the windows but what would have become of the Wardroom if it was to be converted into a lounge.  Also wonder where the extra galley area, claimed to be needed after 1972, would go.  Looks like they would have expanded restaurant capacity and reduced galley space back to the 1969 level.

I could have dealt with the expanded Boat Deck forward and would have liked to have seen the penthouse elevator near A Stairway but thank God that mast and funnel never came to reality.

Offline Twynkle

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #11 on: Apr 27, 2010, 08:33 AM »
.....With the windows in the front, she looks very much like QM2 in the rendering..... 

Interesting that  that  you should say that too, Ken!
At first glance, I was wondering about the possibility of Stephen Payne having access to these plans as he was designing QM2!
Just imagine the outrage, had QE2 lost the shape of her funnel and mast!
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Offline Chris Frame

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #12 on: Apr 27, 2010, 12:27 PM »
Amazing information Rob, this must have taken a while to put together! What a marvellous find, makes for fascinating reading!

I must say, I am glad that QE2's external appearance wasn't hindered by certain elements of this proposal. I can't stand the balconies and altered forward profile, remind me of those awful hotel concepts leaked from Nakheel.

The interior concepts are interesting. I am glad many didn't proceed. I loved looking down the stairwells! The aft area around One Deck with a proper alternative dining venue would probably have looked better than the Pavilion which was eventually added during Project Lifestyle. As popular as The Pavilion was, it wasn't pretty!

Thinking of Project Lifestyle, the mid-ships lobby concepts remind me of the original Project Lifestyle ideas, of a two storey atrium style lobby:



**

I guess I am biased as I love QE2 as she is. If the proposed changes had happened, she would have been a very different ship.

** Images are from here: http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/aspgallery/view_ad.asp?Ad_ID=1871&CatLevel=&Cat1_ID=&Cat2_ID=&Cat3_ID=&Cat4_ID=&FromSearch=True&SearchPage=%2Ftravelpage%2Faspgallery%2Fsearch.asp%3FCatLevel%3D%26Cat1_ID%3D%26Cat2_ID%3D%26Cat3_ID%3D%26Cat4_ID%3D%26SearchText%3DQE2%26x%3D0%26y%3D0
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2010, 12:29 PM by Chris »
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Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #13 on: Apr 27, 2010, 12:33 PM »
Thanks Chris.

With each set of 'concepts', they always thought she needed a more dramatic midships lobby / dramatic entrance.  However I disagree.  I think it would have actually been misleading.  QE2 had relatively low ceilings, and was relatively old fashioned in terms of her deck arrangements.  A dramatic double-height midships lobby, would just have made the rest of the decks feel even more low, I think.  I like the original lobby, and i like it as it ended up too.  It set the tone for the rest of the ship, and made you realise you were not going onto a state of the art "bling" ship, but a beautiful classic.
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Offline Chris Frame

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #14 on: Apr 27, 2010, 12:38 PM »
I for one, loved the lobby in its 1994-present appearance. It was superb, it was Cunard and it was VERY QE2 (of that time)...

To borrow your superb image:



(Click https://www.flickr.com/photos/lightbody/2796041044/ to see full size)

It's just a stunning space!

The pursers desk, if ever moved, would have benefited from being closer to the lobby on Two Deck, but as it was everyone found their way there in the end ;)

I think in large, the 1987 'concepts' would have resulted in a very 80's QE2 that would have dated quickly - and not in the way that Project Lifestyle dated QE2 (purposely) but rather in a "hmm very 80's" kind of way.
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2010, 12:43 PM by Rob Lightbody »
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Offline Michael Gallagher

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #15 on: Apr 27, 2010, 01:02 PM »
"I think in large, the 1987 'concepts' would have resulted in a very 80's QE2 that would have dated quickly - and not in the way that Project Lifestyle dated QE2 (purposely) but rather in a "hmm very 80's" kind of way".

I couldn't agree more with you Chris!

Offline cunardqueen

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #16 on: Apr 27, 2010, 03:23 PM »
Quote
The pursers desk, if ever moved, would have benefited from being closer to the lobby on Two Deck, but as it was everyone found their way there in the end

It was a good thing by probably not having the pursers office in that area. Having the crew lined up and escorting you to the cabin probably saved  a lot of questions and then if you really needed the pursers office you would find them.
 I cant remember but were the passengers always shown to the cabin or was that a introduction in later years. I seem to recall at one time being given directions and that was it?
 However it was nice to walk down the gangway and enter what is the calming area of the Midships Lobby and to be "home" without the fuss of some tacky modern hotel lobby that seems to be the norm on ships.     
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Offline Chris Frame

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #17 on: Apr 28, 2010, 02:16 AM »
It was a good thing by probably not having the pursers office in that area. Having the crew lined up and escorting you to the cabin probably saved  a lot of questions  

So very true - it is such an oversight that the crew do not escort you aboard QM2 or QV... such terrible confusion that was saved aboard QE2 by having the escorts (although a few times I ended up showing the escort the quickest way to my cabin!!)
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Offline cunardqueen

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #18 on: Apr 29, 2010, 12:12 PM »
Of course it was on this date in 1987 she set sail on "that" voyage. ;D

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 you just knew you were in for a very special time ahead.!

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #19 on: Jun 08, 2010, 06:54 PM »
I wonder if Nakheel saw these designs? This new QE2 reminds me of the shocking Hotel QE2 model. There are some elements like the hotel QE2 proposal.

I'm glad Cunard never went ahead with it. On the other hand it looks quite nice but not as QE2.
« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2010, 06:56 PM by RMS Queen Elizabeth 2 »

Offline Rod

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #20 on: Mar 31, 2012, 06:48 PM »
Extremely interesting...Thank you!
Wonder about the Wardy??? They never said what would replace it.
Having a restaurant right up front...IMHO not a good idea....in rough weather the last thing pax want to sea is waves breaking over the windows.
Escalators....didn't we try that before and they were taken out as unworkable and a health hazard?
Comment about the 1 deck jacuzzis. To save money they equipped the 2 jacuzzis with one filter system. Great idea!! When the ship took a list or rolled..one jac would empty into another and that one would overflow. When the ship got upright, both jacs would be half empty, exposing the jets which would then shoot over the deck and empty them further! All this was fresh water which the ship never had too much of in the first place.

Offline Twynkle

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #21 on: Apr 01, 2012, 08:11 AM »
Extremely interesting...Thank you!
Wonder about the Wardy??? They never said what would replace it.
Having a restaurant right up front...IMHO not a good idea....in rough weather the last thing pax want to sea is waves breaking over the windows....
(Off topic just for a moment, Rod - waves can and do break well, along the windows of the lower deck of QM2's Britannia Restaurant - sometimes covering the full height. These are at least two thirds of the way along her hull and it was great for spectators!)
A restaurant up front on board QE2 would be different I s'pose, mightn't it depend on the height above the water line. Although most people with a tendency to experiencing sea-sickness would probably have retired to their cabins hours before.
However, it could have made life a bit more tricky for the waiting crew...
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for what seemed like ages...Please don't leave her looking more like a Hotel-with-a-Hull than the greatest Liner afloat - Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Offline Adam Hodson

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #22 on: Apr 15, 2014, 08:39 PM »
It is very interesting to read all of this. Thanks to Rob for creating that page on the QE2 Story website!  :)
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Offline Hank Hargrove

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #23 on: Apr 21, 2014, 03:04 PM »
Thank you for sharing this Rob! It's very interesting to see they were contemplating putting a public space that overlooked the bow back in.
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Offline Adam Hodson

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #24 on: Apr 21, 2014, 03:50 PM »
It's very interesting to see they were contemplating putting a public space that overlooked the bow back in.

It's a shame they got rid of it in the first place.
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Offline Hank Hargrove

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #25 on: Apr 21, 2014, 08:28 PM »
It's a shame they got rid of it in the first place.

It really is. I know they used it for kitchen space but the sheltered view over the bow is missed. The QM2 has one, however. I wish the QE2 had gotten that space back.
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Offline Adam Hodson

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #26 on: Apr 21, 2014, 08:31 PM »
There have been a lot of changes to her over the years. Some good and some bad...
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Offline Twynkle

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #27 on: Apr 21, 2014, 09:25 PM »
Thank you for sharing this Rob! It's very interesting to see they were contemplating putting a public space that overlooked the bow back in.
Hank - when you remarked on putting a public space back in -
were you referring to the original Look-Out bar?
This space was transformed into the Galley serving the Queens Grill, wasn't it?

Adam, in comparison with other ships / liners of the same age, it's possible that QE2's observation deck, aka the Bit Beneath the Bridge was protected by more shelter than most, squeezing up against the bulkhead beneath the bridge wings in a F6-8 was one of the best experiences on board QE2! Whereas on board M/V Oasia, ex-Saga Ruby, for example there was no protection at all.
Thanks
Rosie.
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for what seemed like ages...Please don't leave her looking more like a Hotel-with-a-Hull than the greatest Liner afloat - Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Offline Adam Hodson

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #28 on: Apr 21, 2014, 09:34 PM »
Hank - when you remarked on putting a public space back in -
were you referring to the original Look-Out bar?
This space was transformed into the Galley serving the Queens Grill, wasn't it?

Adam, in comparison with other ships / liners of the same age, it's possible that QE2's observation deck, aka the Bit Beneath the Bridge was protected by more shelter than most, squeezing up against the bulkhead beneath the bridge wings in a F6-8 was one of the best experiences on board QE2! Whereas on board M/V Oasia, ex-Saga Ruby, for example there was no protection at all.
Thanks
Rosie.

Rosie, off topic but it must have been really thrilling to be on our QE2 in a storm. - Adam
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Offline Adam Hodson

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #29 on: Apr 21, 2014, 10:02 PM »
Exciting stuff there !! Especially the new look for the A stairs.. would have looked good if they had followed through on the rest of the stairwells with the same design with the name on the carpet/staircase, a throwback to the Queen Mary?
** OLD DEAD LINK REMOVED **img8/3443/hotelqueenmary508.jpg[/img]

The original design of the stairways were really nice - especially on D stairway outside the Columbia. That redesign of A stairway would have been a lot nicer than the red, green and brown/wood colour scheme that was fitted.
"The QE2 is one of the last great transatlantic liners, and arguably the most famous liner in the world"

"QE2 and Concorde, a partnership that lasted almost 30 years... two stunning pieces of engineering, never to be forgotten!"

Offline Twynkle

QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for what seemed like ages...Please don't leave her looking more like a Hotel-with-a-Hull than the greatest Liner afloat - Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.

Offline Rod

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #31 on: Apr 21, 2014, 11:24 PM »
The Lookout Bar, if we are being practical, for transatlantics was impractical. There was a small dance floor, dj at times, and a bar...but most of the time it did not even bring in enough money to pay staff wages. IT MOVED TOO MUCH! There was the lit map on the wall showing progress, half the time that did not work. So it became the TOW kitchen. That meant they could serve more people in less time...also get rid of the escalators.
Believe it or not having a drink in a washing machine....not that good

Offline Adam Hodson

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The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #32 on: Apr 21, 2014, 11:27 PM »
To be honest from the pictures I have seen I am not very keen on the lookout bar. However as stated earlier I do like the concept and think it was a shame that they didn't work/happen.

Thanks for that information Rod. Washing machine, that is an excellent phrase to give us an idea of what it was like. :)
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Offline Cabin 2066

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #33 on: Apr 22, 2014, 02:08 AM »
Adam:
The Lookout Bar was my favorite place to go to during my first trip in 1969(maiden voyage eastbound) and several trips after that.
As a 17 year old, many of my age group gathered there after dinner, but during the day the view forward was great. After the room was removed, you could only get the same view by going up to the observation deck immediately under the bridge(which was open to the air & wind).
As to your statement about "must have been thrilling to be in a storm on QE2", imagine a couple of things:
get out a tape measure and lay out a rectangle 80 feet wide by 60 feet long. This approximates the Queens Room on the ship. Now imagine this plot banking 45 degrees to the left, then tilting forward 20 degrees, then repeating the previous two steps to the right and aft. Fun, huh? especially when, unlike an amusement park ride with an ending, you never knew when the storm was going to end on QE2.
Storms were great to be experienced, but it was so much better when you'd come to find the deck was steady.

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Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #34 on: Apr 22, 2014, 11:47 AM »
I certainly remember talk about these plans, in particular moving the Radio Room to behind the bridge in the area known as 'the barn' because I was invited to contemplate the enormous cabling task. Also the regular envious looks aimed by architects at the officers Wardroom, which was in a prime position.
Willum

Offline Twynkle

Re: The radical 1987 Refit that never was...
« Reply #35 on: Apr 22, 2014, 01:45 PM »
Hi Willum
Thank you so much for your posts, your contributions are brilliant!
Talking about the barn - guessing the topic might bring back the memories....
https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,1997.msg35871.html#msg35871
A 'secret' crew / officer place, along with the Wardie; being Crew Country, definitely off-limits for pax!
Rosie
QE2 had been waiting alongside in Dubai for what seemed like ages...Please don't leave her looking more like a Hotel-with-a-Hull than the greatest Liner afloat - Please restore her Lifeboats and Tenders to where they truly belong - she looks naked without them - please spare her this ignominy.