Author Topic: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu : Why etc.  (Read 27784 times)

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Offline Rob Lightbody

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QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu : Why etc.
« on: Aug 26, 2009, 07:41 PM »
Source for this information is www.TheQE2Story.com/Forum.  

  • QE2 is no longer owned by a British company, and hence cannot be registered under the maritime flag state of UK, this is the law.
     
  • This means Southampton can no longer be shown on her stern as it is no longer her home port.
     
  • Vanuatu is one of a few convenience flags who would be willing to register a 40 yo old ship (limit is normally 20 years) which is not SOLAS 2010 compliant and stay within the boundaries of maritime law.

  • Port Vila is the home port of Vanuatu flagged ships, and hence this will be painted on her stern

  • Callsigns are assigned by flag state, so it will change, as will a number of other radio related items.

« Last Edit: Oct 08, 2009, 06:49 PM by Rob Lightbody »


Passionate about QE2 for over 30 years.

Offline Andrew Collier

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #1 on: Aug 26, 2009, 08:20 PM »
These legalities can't be helped, glad they've found somewhere suitable to register it to allow the trip to go ahead!

Just hope they put the new port of registry on the stern in the same style of font that Southampton was written in so it looks like its meant to be there!

Shame it couldn't have stayed UK registered, but there is good reason for that, seeing as thats not a possibility, good for Nakheel for finding Vanuatu, somewhere that will actually accept the ship and make the trip to SA possible!

« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009, 07:00 PM by ancoaster78 »
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Offline Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #2 on: Aug 26, 2009, 08:52 PM »
Looks to me like she will be ready to take to the seas quite soon!

If this is what it takes, it will not be a huge price to pay in order to see her out on the ocean again... and to go looking for her in an accessible place... and find her in the form in which we know and love her.

Looking forward to seeing the webcam when it is ready -- which will hopefully say "Queen Elizabeth 2" -- and to following her on that amazing journey we never thought she would be making...

We have travelled far with QE2 over the past few months -- what a story it has already become...

Offline Andy F

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #3 on: Aug 26, 2009, 09:03 PM »
Hmm, interesting and thanks Rob.  Not sure they are totally correct in saying that the nationality of the owner determines the country of registry.  While registrations can only be made by British/EU registered companies or citizens or those from British Overseas Territories for example, this can be overcome by an individual resident in the UK (any volunteers?) or a company incorporated within the EU territory.  It follows therefore, that if NH had a UK office for example then they could feasibly apply for UK registration.  The problem would arise with the ship not being in UK waters to inspect (hmm, methinks there's a possible solution there also) ;)  Agree however, the port of registry and the name on the stern must be one and the same and the callsign must relate to the country of registration.

That said, while obviously it would have been great to have retained the Southampton name, does it really matter as this would have been purely for nostalgic reasons? The fact she is about to embark on a journey none of us ever thought possible is what excites us the most.  Sad as it is to lose this tie with the UK, we still have our ship and that's the most important thing.

Just thinking aloud here but if/when she should finally return to a permanent mooring in Dubai, maybe NH might wish to consider returning Southampton to her stern?


« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2009, 09:35 PM by Andy F »
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Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2009, 09:28 PM »

What a shame  :(

Louis

Offline Andrew Collier

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2009, 09:54 PM »
Hmm, interesting and thanks Rob.  Not sure they are totally correct in saying that the nationality of the owner determines the country of registry.  While registrations can only be made by British/EU registered companies or citizens or those from British Overseas Territories for example, this can be overcome by an individual resident in the UK (any volunteers?) or a company incorporated within the EU territory.  It follows therefore, that if NH had a UK office for example then they could feasibly apply for UK registration.  The problem would arise with the ship not being in UK waters to inspect (hmm, methinks there's a possible solution there also) ;)



I believe the reason they can't do this Andy is because the ship is not SOLAS 2010 compliant. If it was, then it would have been easy to set up a UK company to own the ship legally, the SA trip will take in through 2010 so they need registry that covers the whole period....
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Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2009, 10:00 PM »
What's the closest QE2 ever got to Vanuatu? :)
Passionate about QE2 for over 30 years.

Offline Waverley

Robert

Offline Jem

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #8 on: Aug 27, 2009, 04:54 AM »
Sorry to see the Red Duster gone and Southampton from her stern :(
Delighted to think she'll once again be at sea, which we never thought would happen again :)
Dare I say this?? Thank you to the economic crash for making it all possible ;D ;D

Cheers

Offline Concorde_QE2

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #9 on: Aug 27, 2009, 08:48 AM »
What a shame  :(
Louis

I agree with you Louis. What a shame. Tragic.
I have sailed all over these South Pacific Islands.
Vanuatu is everything the QE2 was not. I will not call them names.

Seeing Queen Elizabeth 2 with Port Vila on her stern does not look right - at all.
I will burst into tears if I see this name written on her.

They had other places where they could have registered the ship.
They could have registered Monaco or The Cayman Islands.


I am located in Monaco where the world's biggest yachts are with all the world's most famous cruise ships docking here all the time. This is the QE2 we are talking about. V.Ships would  have made the proper arrangements only that Nakheel would have had to pay the price.

Nakheel/QE2Enterprises must be dead broke to have registered such a glorious Ship in Vanuatu.

Remember she is a historical ship. She served in the Falklands war.
You all seem to forget this which is the most important point of her glorious career.

Shame. Shame. Shame.   >:(
There was a better way to fly. It was called Concorde.

Offline Twynkle

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #10 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:00 AM »
Vanuatu is a Good Place!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              A Plea to Nakheel -  Please may Queen Elizabeth 2 retain her other famous name, this is her call sign?  GBTT     
This would be very good indeed too!                                                                                                         
Thank you.
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2010, 08:57 AM by Twynkle »
QE2 has been waiting alongside in Dubai for over 2103 days...or 5 years, 9 months, and many days more - she needs to be earning her keep....

Offline Andrew Collier

QE2 Call Sign under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #11 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:06 AM »
Sadly Rosie that won't be possible, call signs are issued according to the State of Registry of the ship, GBTT is a British call sign, it has had to change to a Vanuatuan one, YJVW6 according to Maritime Matters, pity, but at least it means the ship stays in service....

Maybe those to whom this choice of registry is a big disapointment could take some comfort in the Vanuatu's close historical connections with the UK, and the fact it remains part of the British Commonwealth?
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009, 07:27 PM by ancoaster78 »
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Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #12 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:11 AM »
She's over 40 years old, non SOLAS compliant (soon - i.e. for the period she would be getting certified & flagged for) and as we all know from being on board, showing her age in places - this seems to be the crux of the matter.  Its not EASY to get her flagged somewhere "nice" because its the famous QE2, its HARD !  If thats what it takes for her to escape Port Rashid, its OK with me!

I'm interested you pick out the Falklands as the defining moment in the ship's career - I don't think I do... the far more interesting story for me is her original mould-breaking design, how she succeded where other ships failed, beat all the odds, survived, was rebuilt, and then clocked up an insanely huge mileage never to be bettered !  However maybe we need a "what makes her historic" topic elsewhere?  Feel free to start one!

Nakheel must be dead broke?  How much do you think its cost to keep her running and crewed since November with no fee paying passengers?  And the dry docking, which looks pretty thorough to me!  Maybe someone on here with knowledge of other ships could hazard a guess at the cost of dry-docking and re-painting QE2 last month!

This time last year I'd got off QE2 for the last time, and was certain she'd be 'internally demolished' by now, with her engines and funnel sitting on the Quayside.  Anything that wards off that time...
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009, 10:13 AM by Rob Lightbody »
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Offline Concorde_QE2

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #13 on: Aug 27, 2009, 11:18 AM »
Nakheel must be dead broke?  How much do you think its cost to keep her running and crewed since November with no fee paying passengers?  And the dry docking, which looks pretty thorough to me!  Maybe someone on here with knowledge of other ships could hazard a guess at the cost of dry-docking and re-painting QE2 last month!

I don't know if you are aware of this but Nakheel is not only about the QE2.
They have all kinds of megalomaniac plans that have now been "postponed" which I see as a politically correct way for saying "scrapped".

Oh they would buy off the whole world and even the Moon and move it all to Dubai if you listen to them!!!  ;D

I think the least they could do to retain their credibility with the QE2 was to give her a good repaint job in their own ship yard dry dock -- it all belongs to the same Sheikhs family who are owning most everything in Dubai in the western world they are called "oligarchs" with the work being done by over-exploited workers from the Indian subcontinent... so I guess it did not cost them that much.

http://www.ameinfo.com/181058.html

Construction work on the Nakheel Tower in Dubai - designed to be the world's tallest when completed - has been halted for a year, The National has reported. The tower is to be the centrepiece of a 270-hectare marina development called Nakheel Harbour and Tower near Ibn Battuta Mall and the Arabian Canal. The stalling of the tower is the latest in a string of delays on Nakheel's most prominent projects. Other developments that have been affected include the Trump International Hotel and Tower, Frond N villas, and Gateway Towers, as well as parts of the Waterfront and Palm Deira.

 :o
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2009, 11:21 AM by Concorde_QE2 »
There was a better way to fly. It was called Concorde.

Offline Chris

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #14 on: Aug 27, 2009, 02:39 PM »

Maybe someone on here with knowledge of other ships could hazard a guess at the cost of dry-docking and re-painting QE2 last month!


Flagship could tell us :)

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #15 on: Aug 27, 2009, 04:17 PM »
so I guess it did not cost them that much.

Ah yes, fair point, but it would cost someone else a lot* to do what they did last month, and have been doing.


* understatement...
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Offline Stowaway2k

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #16 on: Aug 27, 2009, 05:56 PM »
On the upside...

QE2 is no stranger to the South Pacific... and the island nation of Vanuatu was formerly known as New Hebrides... the Hebrides being the string of islands off the west coast of Scotland.
 :)

Offline pjswansea

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #17 on: Aug 27, 2009, 07:38 PM »
Why was she not registered as a UAE vessel?

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: July/Aug News (South Africa, Dubai Dry Dock etc.)
« Reply #18 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:33 PM »
Press Release from Nakheel

A Nakheel Spokesperson said:

***BEGINS***

Dubai: 27 August 2009.

Looking magnificent in her freshly painted livery and tidy waterline, QE2 left the Drydocks World Dubai ship yard at 10.30am, Saturday 22 August 2009 in preparation for sea trials. QE2 has been temporarily registered in Vanuatu, a member nation of both the United Nations and the British Commonwealth.  Although she will no longer be taking passengers or operating as a cruise ship, the registration documents will state her class as being ‘a passenger/cruise ship’.  To conform to international law the name ‘Southampton’ has been painted over on the Stern, although the letters remain attached and her temporary home port of Port Vila has now been painted underneath. To comply with the terms of the sale contract, the Cunard brand has been removed from the side of the ship. The Cunard letters are being preserved and kept safe and will be on display at the QE2 museum when it opens.
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Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: July/Aug News (South Africa, Dubai Dry Dock etc.)
« Reply #19 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:35 PM »
BBC News, including 2 links to the forum

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8225638.stm

I spoke to Paul Clifton about it.
Passionate about QE2 for over 30 years.

Offline mickey g

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #20 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:47 PM »
Having just seen the Port-Vila news on BBC South and having read the previous comments, let's just be pleased for the great lady and indeed Nakheel for getting her to look so good again.

Due to the global financial recession Nakheel could well have had her broken up, full marks to them for seeking alternative employment for her.

Finally Rob, congratulations for this brilliant site and, even more important, keeping the site on an even keel. As we all know there are people who let their fantasies take over realism, you are indeed a moderator who is keeping this site well and truly within the realms of common sense and, I hope, commanding the respect of externally interested parties.
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Offline highlander0108

Re: July/Aug News (South Africa, Dubai Dry Dock etc.)
« Reply #21 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:50 PM »
BBC News, including 2 links to the forum

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8225638.stm

I spoke to Paul Clifton about it.

Excellent that Southampton was not removed, but rather painted over.  As I suspected, removing the letters would have been much more involved since they're weled on the plating.  Thanks Rob for the link and your efforts.  :)
"There will never be another one like her" QE2's last Master Ian McNaught
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Offline Andy F

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #22 on: Aug 27, 2009, 10:57 PM »
They had other places where they could have registered the ship. They could have registered Monaco or The Cayman Islands.
Fair point and yes they could have chosen others but whatever they decided would have courted controversy.  The fact remains  she is their ship and they can do with her as they wish (within reason).  Sure I'd have loved her to continue carrying the name of Southampton but while sadly this wasn't to be, it's the ship rather than what's painted on the stern that matters!  

Start every day with a smile and get it over with

Offline Andrew Collier

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #23 on: Aug 27, 2009, 11:00 PM »
Why was she not registered as a UAE vessel?

It must be the case that UAE would not accept the ship as is, ie non-SOLAS 2010 any more than any other major maritime nation, otherwise surely this would have been the first choice for its Dubai owners to consider?
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Offline hollihedge

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #24 on: Aug 28, 2009, 10:23 AM »
I bet she absolutely loved getting out to do her sea trials!
Gill

Offline Malcolm

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #25 on: Aug 28, 2009, 06:07 PM »
it's the ship rather than what's painted on the stern that matters!

Is it? :) I think that it's the memory of what she was rather than what she became that matters. In her latter years the QE2 had lost a great part of what made her QE2 but there was still sufficient remaining for her to be special to us. I am NOT saying that having Southampton painted on the stern was THE thing that made her QE2 but that it is just another part of the entirety of QE2 that has now gone.

Offline Andy F

Re: UK Flagged Ships, flags of convenience, home ports etc.
« Reply #26 on: Aug 29, 2009, 01:22 AM »
Agreed Malcolm but my point was that without the ship, there would be no memories.  Yes the 2 (3 if you include the CUNARD name) go hand in hand and like most, I hoped they would stay together but irrespective of what's on her stern or the flag she flies, the ship that was the source of our collective memories remains.  She may not be quite the same admittedly but then again, she ceased to be that last November. 
Start every day with a smile and get it over with

Offline Chris

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #27 on: Aug 29, 2009, 12:03 PM »


QE2's AIS tracker is showing her new flag now!

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/shipdetails.aspx?MMSI=576059000


Offline Malcolm

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #28 on: Aug 29, 2009, 05:49 PM »
QE2's AIS tracker is showing her new flag now!

But still the old call sign. I wonder why :-\

Offline Kathy M.

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #29 on: Aug 29, 2009, 05:51 PM »
I noticed that about the call sign also . . .
Kathy

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #30 on: Aug 30, 2009, 01:28 PM »
Image of new stern lettering for Port Vila :

http://www.maritimematters.com/shipnews.html
Passionate about QE2 for over 30 years.

Offline Isabelle Prondzynski

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #31 on: Aug 30, 2009, 01:39 PM »
Looking back at our messages, 19 August seems to have been the day she moved back to Port Rashid, where this picture must have been taken on the same day.

Good to see that "Southampton" remains clearly visible, and that Port Vila is painted on in the same font, as far as I can make out. Well, I wonder what she has been doing since then...?

ex-crewmember

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #32 on: Aug 30, 2009, 01:50 PM »

My heart just stopped.Very sad to see that.  :(  i have a bad feeling about all this.
For a ship that was in dry dock that aft end looks a bit tacky, doesnt it ?

Louis



Offline Chris

Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #33 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:03 PM »
Yikes! That looks very different!

It's a very low quality photo I think. That's what makes her look scruffy - the image is pixelated.

Mr B

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #34 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:24 PM »
The rat guards are all missing from her stern lines too...

 >:(

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #35 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:25 PM »
The rat guards are all missing from her stern lines too...

 >:(

Yeah I noticed that.  Do they have rat guards in Dubai though?  Isn't it just too hot and dry for them ?
Passionate about QE2 for over 30 years.

Mr B

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #36 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:27 PM »
Oh they do have rats there too I can assure you !

The rat guards were part of her equipment.

Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #37 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:29 PM »
 ;D  what I meant to ask was, do they have rats there!  Its probably a very stupid question indeed...
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Mr B

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #38 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:31 PM »
Hee hee,

...you figured out where I was going with that I see !!

*laughs*



Offline Rob Lightbody

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Re: QE2 under the flag of Vanuatu
« Reply #39 on: Aug 30, 2009, 02:33 PM »
OK having read this - http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/07/05/10/10124217.html - then yes, I feel that they should fit her rat guards, pronto!!
Passionate about QE2 for over 30 years.

 

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