If QE2 is scrapped, will it change what you think of Cunard?

[Rob Lightbody]

Let me know if you need another option!

[flagship]

Why should people blame Cunard if the decision is taken to scrap? Such a decision is nothing to do with Cunard and hasn't been since 27 November 2008!

[Twynkle]

Rob
What if QE2 sank....
Would the feelings be the same?
Rosie

[Beardy Rich]

I haven't voted as I agree with Flagship. Lets face it, if it wasn't for Cunard there would never have been a QE2 in the first place.
Having said that, I sincerely hope she isn't scrapped... she deserves better. As always, it all comes down to money/finances though.

As for going on a Cunard cruise... I'd love to There's just a small matter of finding a winning lottery ticket first  

[Rob Lightbody]

I haven't voted as I agree with Flagship. Lets face it, if it wasn't for Cunard there would never have been a QE2 in the first place.
Having said that, I sincerely hope she isn't scrapped... she deserves better. As always, it all comes down to money/finances though.

As for going on a Cunard cruise... I'd love to There's just a small matter of finding a winning lottery ticket first  

OK I've added you & flagships option to the Poll - if you vote, that will be the currently winning answer

If it wasn't for Cunard, there wouldnt be QE2.  But I also think vice-versa is true...

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Rob, I am sure I've voted exactly liike you    !

My preferred wording might have been "I am angry with Cunard for having sold her -- this does not change my feelings towards Cundard" -- or some more elegant wording to the same effect.

[Bob C.]

Cunard stopped being Cunard years ago but all along it was a business and not a maritime museum.  With few exceptions, just before and during most of QE2's life , they were struggling to make ends meet with their passenger service with the emerging jetliner age. The Golden Age of Cunard could probably be defined from the end of WWII to the mid/late 50's when trans-Atlantic tourist travel was peaking. But when the bottom line on the balance sheets turned red in the 60's, they began to cut assets including QM and QE even with their popular notariety and historical significance.  It's just busniness.

Having said that, Carnival/Cunard could have done a much better job of recognizing the significance QE2 and preserving her and the liner heritage that she represents.  Scrapping her would be like crumpling up the Constitution or Magna Carta in a ball and tossing it in the trash can because it cost to much to preserve.

[Cunardqueen]

I only ever sailed on QE2 and one trip on the MSC Melody. For me it didnt matter who owned QE2, she was always  QE2.  If she is scrapped, will it change my view of Cunard NO, But l have no intention of sailing on the new ships in the forseable future. And the single cabin issues most certainly dont help
But a small part of me is pleased that they kept her going as long as she did, BUT l do think the end could have been handled better. 
 

[Chris]

I have to agree with Flagship - Cunard opted to sell QE2, not scrap her. Any future decisions are not Cunard's fault.

[Mauretania1907]

I agree, carnicunard opted to sell her, so now it is up to Nakheel what eventually becomes of her. Would I travel on a Cunard ship - yes, Q Mary die grosse interests me a lot, BUT not at double price, as I would require a cabin to myself.

[LegendOfTheSeas]

I have to agree with Flagship - Cunard opted to sell QE2, not scrap her. Any future decisions are not Cunard's fault.

I agree with this as well. Cunard sold the ship, believing she'd have a good future. If she's scrapped then that's down to the people who now own her and the fact a recession came along at precisely the wrong time (not that there's ever a good time for a recession, but I hope you know what I mean). I don't like the fact she was sold by Cunard, but the current situation's not, as I see it, Cunard's fault.

[Cruise_Princess]

I think Cunard are damned if they do and damned if they dont....can you imagine the outcry if THEY had  scrapped her   I know I for one would have shouted the loudest....truth is no devoted QE2 fan wanted her to go regardless of how...and I suppose we have to remember that Cunard are a business and as much as it pains us no business keeps anything old going just for sentimental reasons......  so I say .......but  like everyone else still take the hump cause she's not here any more......

[Rob Lightbody]

The simple fact is that QE2 should still be sailing, as originally intended. If Cunard owned her and was still operating her, then nobody could scrap her. QE2 would have looked more and more amazing over the years spanning 2008 to 2015 and would have drawn bigger and bigger crowds as all other ships look worse and worse. Marketed as a real classic liner, in the right way, she'd have been a huge hit.  She should have passed 40 due to the 1987 mega-refit, indeed she was intended to.

I profoundly disagree with the idea that Cunard has no responsibility if something awful happens to "the most famous ship in the world" that served them so well over the decades, and is the *only* reason Cunard still exists.

[Cunardqueen]

She should have passed 40 due to the 1987 mega-refit, indeed she was intended to.

Surely they must have had some idea as to how long QE2 would continue, you dont invest all that money for a 21 year extension do you?? Heck even back in 1983 Sir Nigel Broackes was saying she could last as long as 25 years. And the figure of 2015 was always be banded about in recent years.

 I still think its  disgrace how two of her cruises were mucked about to "fit in" the farewell uk and both crossings.
 As some one who was booked on the original cruises before they were messed about with and reading the terms and conditions etc etc l would have thought it made more sense to do the 12 night crossing first then the round UK to fit in with the original 12 night cruise and 10 night cruise, that way Cunard could have made even more profit by not giving us the $300 onboard credit per affected voyage. Granted we had the tandem with QM2,but lm sure most of us could have seen her far enough, heck it was bad enough knowing this was QE2s last chance, let alone having the ugly cousin following us, not only there BUT back as well

 Even when the sale was mentioned trying to get a straight answer from Cunard reservations that day was hopeless, (l know its never easy to get a straight answer from them at the best of times)  But clearly it seemed everyone was caught on the hop. My confirmation was only sorted out 2 days before the voyages went on sale to the public.

 The  brochure that year said that the winder schedules would be announced in the summer of that year, so something was in the pipeline or was this to give them breathing space in case any deal fell through?
Then again as a company their loyality is to the shareholder, to heck with the vast number of loyal passengers out there who supported QE2 through thick and thin, we have been dumped, shipless

Wouldnt it be great if Cunard offered to take her back, berth her at QEII terminal and watch as the flocks of people lined up to pay to tour round the greatest ship in the world, ok they might have egg on their face, but its surely a lot nicer than having the other stuff when it hits the fan..... 

[Cruise_Princess]

Rob and Myles ....your pieces are brilliant...one minute Im seeing this from a business point of view then after reading your pieces i agree with you too.. Im on the swings and roundabouts  Admittedly  I think it it was all done in too big a hurry...I think she could have sailed for even a few years with us all knowing she would eventually go within the next 2 or 3 years...maybe would have been less of a blow...maybe Dubai owned but leased back to Cunard.
But would Cunard still WANT to operate Qe2 in the way we all know and love...i dont think so they dont want ANYTHING classic they want all singin dancin revenue making like the ugly sisters have   .....I think they would just have run her right down......Cant understand it myself as she did sell for what she was ....a Unique Ocean liner....but not enough of the younger generation maybe wanted to sail on her as no funnels to climb etc etc and the business is so competetive now.....i dont know....I just want to have her back sailing as she was and be able to say today Im going on the Qe2 this year.....but it wont  happen  how I wish it would.

As you say Myles the full itinerary was held back for that year and I questioned it to the very top (CM) and she told me on the phone that the itineraries were coming out a bit later ..that was all.....nothing unusual etc etc but I think we all knew that something was happening....as Cunard Qe2 brochures were always out early...

Had Qe2 been handled correctly as Bob says she could have been a real winner...the ONLY British built liner surviving today...what a coup for Cunard...and yes where would Cunard be today if it had not been for Qe2 and all of us sailing on her...... there would be no QM2 QV or new Lizzie....and again I can only say that Cunard would do well to remember that,

i still feel there is a possibility down the line that they will dump the 2 vista jobs and build a new LINER named Lizzie....around the same size and spec to Qe2....but sadly she wont be British built.....

I can only dream

This topic is a real goodie....good to see what everyone is saying about this .......

[Peter Mugridge]

But would Cunard still WANT to operate Qe2 in the way we all know and love...i dont think so they dont want ANYTHING classic they want all singin dancin revenue making like the ugly sisters have

They could easily get around this by setting up a subsidiary just for QE2 and calling it "Classic Cunard" with separate marketing etc.

Incidetally, in the media frenzy over the camera story, I note that Peter Shanks is quoted as saying "the great QE2" in the USA Today paper.  Is that a sign that, albeit three years too late, he is finally getting the point about QE2?

[Cunardqueen]

I note that Peter Shanks is quoted as saying "the great QE2" in the USA Today paper.  Is that a sign that, albeit three years too late, he is finally getting the point about QE2?

...That same person once said that QE2 held the Cunard brand back !!!....

[Rob Lightbody]

Just in response to something cruise_princess said... QE2 always made money. From day #1 she made money. Lots & lots. She was a fantastic money-making machine, that was her purpose, and she did it very well indeed, from 1969 to 2008.  I personally feel that they should have hyped UP some of the things that made her "old" like the romance of having a cosy wee cabin with a porthole, the "communal" boat deck where you do meet your fellow passengers because they don't have balconies, and the wonderful ocean-view restaurants which i do not believe are equalled or even come close on the new Cunarders.

[Marshall]

I agree with you all on your comments about the QE2 but sadly the government are to blame just as much as Cunard are for what is currently happening to her because eof the fact they signed the SOLOS 2010 regulations and if they didn't we could still have the QE2, SS Norway, saga rose and many more still sailing the waves but no they signed the regulations resulting in shipping company replacing old with new.  

The fact is Cunard had to decide do we keep the iconic QE2 or get rid and they made the biggest mistake in selling her to the highest bidder which sadly was a middle east company who ahd already racked up a load of debts anyway. I also feel the sale in regards to the QE2 was too quick i dont think they kept all the options open such as returning her home and donating her to Southampton or the clude. Instead they sent her to a warm clement.

Its bad enought we have lost the SS norway to alang, its bad enougth we have the SS Unted states rusting away in philidelphia and its bad enought the saga rose maybe going to the scrapper sbut plkease cunard dont send our LIZZY to the scrap yard there are people who care about her very much.

I feel the fact that she has had Southampton removed from her stern is upsetting and her Cunard logo removed makes her look naked.  Instead she features PORT VILLA

What would you rather see her look like


>image removed - taken from a website without authorisation or reference<

would you like to see her looking like this in alang or some middle asia scrappers yard? just like her fellow friend the SS Norway the EX SS France

Or

>image removed - taken from a website without authorisation or reference<

Or would you rather her see her rust and slowly decay as time goes on as the decaDES PASS BY

Or

>image removed - taken from a website without authorisation or reference<

Docked permentily in a nice place looked agfter as a hotel/ convention centre in the UK

Or

>image removed<

Sunk someone after burning whille reftiing

Or

>image removed - taken from a website without authorisation or reference<

At sea for the rest of her life but runned at a more slowler economical speed.

What you guys think i know what i would chose

[Twynkle]

I agree with you all on your comments about the QE2 but sadly the government are to blame just as much as Cunard are for what is currently happening to her because eof the fact they signed the SOLOS 2010 regulations....

Hello!
Please could you clarify this?  Which 'government' are you referring to?
Isn't the fact that 'QE2 isn't sailing' due more in part to this gentleman and the company he keeps!...Also -  he wouldn't be paying his taxes in the UK - would he?!
Rosie

Take a look at this!
http://www.travelmole.tv/watch_vdo.php?id=15323

[Cruise_Princess]

They could easily get around this by setting up a subsidiary just for QE2 and calling it "Classic Cunard" with separate marketing etc.

Thats one of the best 'keep sailing' ideas I've read.....when 'classic' is added to anything particulary  cars etc....its a whole different ballgame....wish I'd kept my  mums wee Austin. A35,.,would be 'classic' by now and worth a fortune with everyone clambering after it.....now we ride around in Japanese junk.....( much like the foreign built 'cruise ships).....

[Cruise_Princess]

Just in response to something cruise_princess said... QE2 always made money. From day #1 she made money. Lots & lots. She was a fantastic money-making machine, that was her purpose, and she did it very well indeed, from 1969 to 2008.  I personally feel that they should have hyped UP some of the things that made her "old" like the romance of having a cosy wee cabin with a porthole, the "communal" boat deck where you do meet your fellow passengers because they don't have balconies, and the wonderful ocean-view restaurants which i do not believe are equalled or even come close on the new Cunarders.

Yes I agree Rob there was nothing to beat those fabulous restaurants with sea views...not like sitting a huge cavern on the QM or squeezed against a wall on the QV....the one word missing from that pair is true ELEGANCE! and meeting fellow passengers along the boat deck etc.. no ugly balconies to hide away in....who goes on a cruise to hide in your balcony?  We want to socialise....thats what WE WANT...  and of course the romance of the cabin complete with porthole...now your 'stateroom' feels as though  you could be in Dubai Singapore or New York hotels  they are all the same. IMPERSONAL.
BUT ....is that what the new cruise generation WANT?  I don't believe so....its not enough for them..they need to be entertained 24/7...being on the most fabulous classic British built most beautiful ocean liner int he world just isnt enough....they just dont know what they are missing.... but then again maybe they can only text and twitter not good old fashioned socialising!!  Cunard arent interested in this time gone by....they only want NEW business and thatl'll only come with balconies and 24/7 entertainment etc....its crazy,but they are the people they listen to...in Cunards eyes the Old QE2 Cunarders are boring old sods.....we have all proved it on recent new build voyages...you are not allowed to mention QE2  they dont wanna know.

So what can we do about it?? Pitch in our bank accounts and buy her ourselves.......if only!

[Rob Lightbody]

SOLAS 2010 did not kill QE2 and she could have sailed on far beyond it. It was just the latest legislation that she had to get around, just like she had many times previously. And I'm speaking as someone who has been advised by a number of QE2 experts. We discuss this elsewhere, however, so i don't want this to become yet another SOLAS discussion.

Also - just a wee polite note - can you please only post photos that you own, or have checked with the owner and credit them when posting.

Cheers,

- Rob.

[Twynkle]

Surely they must have had some idea as to how long QE2 would continue, you dont invest all that money for a 21 year extension do you??....

......Wouldnt it be great if Cunard offered to take her back, berth her at QEII terminal and watch as the flocks of people lined up to pay to tour round the greatest ship in the world, ok they might have egg on their face, but its surely a lot nicer than having the other stuff when it hits the fan..... 

Myles - That question is really good! 

Does anyone know whether a great ship has ever been bought and preserved by her previous owner?
Cunard could maximise their reputation if they fulfilled this excellent idea.

It was sad to read Mr Shanks statement,
"Additionally, the Special Relationship series further underscores Cunard's commitment to bringing its guests not only legendary voyages aboard the most famous ocean liners in the world, but also engaging and intellectual pursuits during their journey."
http://allaboutcunard.blogspot.com/
He could make it come true, if only he and others who hold the purse strings were to be a bit creative,
and together with sincerity and humility,  they could make their subsidiary company  very important
with QE2 as their Vintage Flagship
 - and not only would we welcome the gesture, it would save me from doing Rob's fiendish poll!
Thanks again, Myles!
Rosie
 

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Does anyone know whether a great ship has ever been preserved by her previous owner?

Yes, Hikawa Maru is an excellent example. I wrote up my visit here :

http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,1300.0.html

[Andy]

I think in my mind, Cunard had to retire her she was nearly if not always sailling full and she would have kept her returning passengers too, she was even attracting a younger age group too. So she had to go Cunard wanted and needed QE2s passengers to fill up the cabins on QV and QM2, they were the spaces needed ing filled not the QE2. My apologies if this has wandered off topic and in the wrong place.

[caledonia]

Lets be realistic here, the QE2's time had come, she was a very tired old lady at the end needing far more money spending on her than could possibly be justified on a ship 40 years old. I loved her and still miss her, but i have travelled on the QM2, have a voyage booked on the new QE, and to be totally honest the QM2 is a magnificent liner which leaves the QE2 for dead in terms of passenger facilities. I for one will continue to travel with Cunard as to me its a wonderful experience and i quite simply love being on one of their magnificent liners.

[Queet-two]

Hmm! 

I have only been on the QM2 at one of their prelaunch parties, when she was moored at S'ton so I really don't know her.  But I note an admiration for her on several strands on this site. 

Yes QE2 was expensive to keep in service but more obviously she was the wrong image for Cunard's 'youngest fleet' image. Cunard were lucky, very lucky to sell QE2 to Dubai for an astronomically silly price. No business could refuse such an offer. Try explaining it to the shareholders if they had.  She could have sailed on at least until the replacement QE arrived, but yes, sadly but honestly, I agree, her time had come.  It took a remarkable crew to keep her going.

So Cunard sold her. 

I don't think Cunard are in denial about her existence. They simply don't care.  She is not their property or problem any more. She is no longer a Cunader. 

Furthermore Cunard are not in the heritage preservation business.  They are into modern cruising.  So rightly or wrongly, they won't be 'rescuing' her
 
So what does that make us, the followers of this forum?  If the QE2 is passée, are we dinosaurs?  Are we just some sad old anoraks living on our memories?  Emotionally we liken her sale to a divorce.  Cunard is  the wicked husband. He is so besotted by the 'glamour' of his new young queens, and oblivious to their ugly lack of style, that he abandons his elderly wife by dumping her in an unsuitable location, where her arguably unsuitable but wealthy new owners are equally oblivious to her pedigree and elegance and can't wait to inflict an inappropriate face lift on her.  Only their wealth stands between her and the scrap yard.
 
We'll shed many a tear when it's decision time. 

But life goes on. 

Should we face up to it and just save up to voyage on the new Cunard fleet?

[Rob Lightbody]

QM2 is awesome, and ticks lots of "specification" boxes.  She has all the latest whizz-bang stuff.  What I think she lacks though, due in no small part to her huge-ness both inside and out, is the cosy-comfy-charm that QE2 had oodles off.  This is the definition of luxury, to me.  Its something you can just tell, when they get it right.  Its not about features and gadgets and huge spaces.  Its not in your face, in fact its the opposite.  Its relaxing and easy.  Parts of QM2 felt like a high-class shopping mall to me... and I missed being able to see the sea from many public spaces - simple things like this make a huge difference to the enjoyment.

QE2 was not on her last legs, and its over-simplistic to call her 40 years old - since she had the biggest maritime refit ever undertaken in 1986/7 at enormous cost, and has had lots of other significant upgrades over the years too.  Parts of her were problematic, there's no denying that, however Cunard intended to keep her going for much longer, and only that juicy offer from Nakheel stopped them from doing so.  She could have carried on, and was intended to.  Not forever, but for many years longer.  To my mind, she just needed marketed correctly - as a proper classic ship - getting a porthole should have been sold as a romantic feature, not something to be ashamed of.

Please don't call QE her replacement either, only one ship can ever be called that, and thats QM2 because in terms of hardware, at least, she carries the Cunard Queen name forward.  No other ship does.

I'm so gutted that the Cape Town plan failed, and I'm so hoping they find another similar role for her, because i so want to see that achingly beautiful ship at sea again, and I hope she makes it into the papers (for the right reasons...) when she does so.

[caledonia]

Yes Rob , we all want to see her at sea again for the right reasons,but sadly the way things are going i can only see very sadly a one way trip to Alang. I hope and pray that our beautiful lady survives in her present condition, ( how i wish i could turn back time and travel on her once again) but time marches on and the future of Cunard and all the other cruise companies is not small cabins in the hull of a ship with portholes but the balconnies we now see on these floating tower blocks. I have just retuirned from a voyage on the Ocean Countess ( previously Cunard Countess) and it highlights how the new ships have moved on, it was a very pleasant experience, but as fellow passenges who were first time cruisers on this voyage commented, it was not what they expected of a cruise ship today, they are looking for the luxury of large cabins with balconnies or a large picture window.
Sadly this is what the paying public now wants and expects and as much as i hate to admit it the QE2's time has come, the last year or so of her service life was full of people wanting to say they had travelled on her, but talking to passengers on the two trips i undertook in her last 6 months of service, many were dissapointed with the facilities on board.

[Cruise_Princess]

Sadly todays cruising generation only know the tower block ships...to be honest they dont' really want to be on a ship anyway,...all they want is a 24 hour fun camp with constant activities to keep them amused.....

sadly for them the sea is not enough.....

they just will never know what they have missed....................

[Rob Lightbody]

Thinking of QE2's "life & times", it surely is unprecedented in terms of change.

• When conceived, everybody thought Cunard was mad building a cruise ship at all, let alone a big Atlantic liner
• She was once the largest and most luxurious in the world, and then very rapidly was overtaken over & over again...
• She was the last Atlantic liner for 30+ years... and then she wasn't!
• She had no balcony cabins, but now everybody insists on one
• Her first 10 years were special... then the "New" Norway came along, and cruising began its new lease of life.

Has any ship ever sailed through such dramatic change in the industry? Surely not.  And for her to have constantly turned a profit during these times (oh yes she did!) and to have saved the company that built her with their "last gasp" is even more amazing.

- R

[Clydebuilt1971]

Has any ship ever sailed through such dramatic change in the industry? Surely not.  And for her to have constantly turned a profit during these times (oh yes she did!) and to have saved the company that built her with their "last gasp" is even more amazing.

- R

Hit the nail fairly and squarely on the head there Rob! Had we not had QE2 Cunard would have disappeared a long time ago.

The changes in the industry are down to natural progression - thats why things develop. QE2 was built to satisfy a specification at the time - now that specification has changed. Its a pity that our shipbuilding industry never woke up to the same concept!

Had Dubai not come in with the offer they did QE2 would have sailed on until the end of this year (IMHO) but I'm afraid business is business and an offer like that doesnt come along too often. Would I boycott Cunard if QE2 was scrapped? Absolutely not!! Why should I - its not Cunard's decision now and they would be interfering if they tried to become involved.

I am one of the QM2 supporters alluded too earlier in this thread but I know that if QE2 had never existed then there wouldn't be a QM2 either. I also agree with Cruise Princess regarding the tower block style cruise ships we have today - it would appear that people want to take all their creature comforts on holiday with them rather than experience something different.

For me the sea / river will always be enough - hell I spend most of my summer pootling around on a 62 year old paddle steamer!!

Heres a thing though - the last ship to be scrapped under Cunard's tenure was Aquitania was it not? Vessels since have all went onto other lives before meeting the torch (or in QE's case the pyre). Have any other shipping line's vessels been as long lived?

Gav

[flagship]

The second Mauretania was sent fro scrap under Cunard owndership in 1965.

[Andy]

QE2 definately wasnt past it, but she did need a good internal refit in line with her iconic status and classic reputation, I think once the new builds start getting older their upkeep will cost a lot more than was spent on the qe2 over the years. The QE2 and a lot of her contempories were built over a lengthy period of time by crafts men and time taught builders, not in pre-fabricated sections from start to finish.

[Clydebuilt1971]

The second Mauretania was sent fro scrap under Cunard owndership in 1965.

Oops forgot that one.

 

[flagship]

The second Mauretania (1939) is often forgotten. Totally overshadowed by the Queens and blighted by being given such a famous name just four years after the 1935 departure of the first Mauretania. A shame really as she was just as worthy as other famous Cunarders.

[Andy]

I thought the 2nd Mauretania was an attractive ship, didnt she look like a smaller version of the 1st Queen Elizabeth ? Didnt she also split her time between filling in on the Atlantic run and cruising ? Think I need to read up on this one !

[flagship]

Andy - you are correct in what you say. She was built to stand in for one of the Queens if needed. And she did get a sister ship but not until after the war! Believe it or not that sister was Caronia (the Green Goddess). While she looked totally different to Mauretania there were similarities. I read about this in detail somewere and will try and locate it but Cunard classed Mauretania and Caronia as sisters!

[Scott Ebersold]

Flagship.

That is fascinating.  Here is a little video of Mauretania (2) coming to NY  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeUCbBjkOtE.

... we probably should move this bit that has turned into Mauretania discussion to the VCR.  I will soon if we keep on the topic.

-Scott

[Chris]

The second Mauretania (1939) is often forgotten. Totally overshadowed by the Queens and blighted by being given such a famous name just four years after the 1935 departure of the first Mauretania. A shame really as she was just as worthy as other famous Cunarders.

A lesson ignored by calling the new ship Elizabeth just two years after the last Elizabeth?

[Chris]

 
I'm so gutted that the Cape Town plan failed, and I'm so hoping they find another similar role for her, because i so want to see that achingly beautiful ship at sea again, and I hope she makes it into the papers (for the right reasons...) when she does so.

My sentiment exactly!!

[Andy]

Not the first time this has happened QE2 was named over a year before the 1st QE departed cunard service thats why the 2 was added I think.

[Chris]

True, but QE was always overshadowed in fame and popularity by QM. And, QE2 was always destined to have an epic career, being the last of her kind it was always going to go really well or really badly; either way she would always be remembered. As it so happens it went spectacularly well.

So, my concern for QE(3) is first, QM2 will (deservedly) always attract the attention and second, as Elizabeth she has BIG shoes to fill, just as second Maure did.