Re: QM2 design

[jdl]

Pleased to report that the bumpouts mentioned above were incorporated into QM2 as a result of them being on Vistafjord (then Caronia) and Sagafjord (then Saga Rose)!

QM2 forward superstructure: modelled on Queen Mary
QM2 whaleback: modelled on Normandie
QM2 bow, mast and funnel: modelled on QE2
QM2 aft masts: modelled on France

And I think something was modelled on Rotterdam but I can't remember what now - I'll ask Stephen Payne.

Michael - what's a whaleback then??!!

john

[Rob Lightbody]

what's a whaleback then??!!

Its the part that is V-shaped, designed to wash aside the Atlantic off the bows... If you look at a picture of Normandie's bow, which at the time was utterly revolutionary (compare to QM's messy arrangement even though QM was newer), you can see it clearly.  QM(1) didn't have one, QE2 sort of has one incorporated but its not so obvious, QM2 does!

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Rob, could you possibly show it in a note on one of your QM2 photos? I am not yet sure that I have fully understood...  

[Rob Lightbody]

Rob, could you possibly show it in a note on one of your QM2 photos? I am not yet sure that I have fully understood...  

I don't have a great photo of it, but I've done so here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightbody/4030085026/in/set-72157622621520604/

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Thank you, Rob. Yes, that makes sense!

[jdl]

I don't have a great photo of it, but I've done so here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/lightbody/4030085026/in/set-72157622621520604/

Cheers Rob and sorry for hijacking the thread.  I've never heard it called a whaleback but it makes perfect sense now!

I also remember Stephen Payne talking about it being a feature he had 'borrowed' from the Normandie

john

[ancoaster78]

Hi Everybody,

Does anyone else here think Cunard so NEARLY got QM2 right?

I am thrilled it got built, but disapointed, as I know we all are, with certain aspects of its design.

I am staring at pictures of it, imaging how much more elegant it would look without those uptake aft of the funnel, they make it look stockier, take them away, merge them into the funnel or somehting, and the ship looks a lot sleeker and more QE2esque!

Anyone agree? Or got other points to make, lets work out all the perfections, and get Cunard to oblige us with a heavy refit! :-)

[Twynkle]

Hey - Andytooo,
I know this is 'almost off topic' - on the other hand, it could be just about OK!
Please, before  Cunard is required to change anything at all, about anything else...
don't they absolutely need to 'oblige us' by making an offer for QE2?
Rosie

[NorCal Queen]

I rather think they did what they could. Sadly there are economics to be factored in, certain amount of cabins that type of thing. I am somewhat new to pure, good liner design, but my neophyte eyes find her very appealing. (oh the horror lol)

Where I am most pleased is in performance. I am so happy they made a true performance liner vs a gussied up cruise box. I for one would not cross on anything less.

She is a bit tall, but proportioned fairly well. I like the front, the back could use some work, but I am at a loss to describe what that would be.

[highlander0108]

She is a bit tall, but proportioned fairly well. I like the front, the back could use some work, but I am at a loss to describe what that would be.

We all should at least like the bow, since the shape is lifted right off the QE2.   As Stephen Payne has been quoted many times describing the design of QM2, QE2's bow is well proven and quite effective in handling the rough seas with ease and was the basis of the larger QM2 bow shape.  Qe2's designers nailed the design and Stephen Payne was smart to use what has worked.  It also is a nice gesture that for some people will remind them of QE2 for years to come everytime that see that bow.  Of course, there is one big difference, which is mainly underwater; the very pronounced bulbous bow feature.

Another feature that I recall Flagship pointing out is the center section of the bridge, which is angled forward and very reminicient of QE2's iconic bridge design.  I preferred the original bridge wings before the extensions were added since now they are looking a bit more Princess like in their extensions beyond the sides of the ship.  These extensions were added during the drydock after the run in with the bottom in Ft. Lauderdale that took out one of the pods.

Regarding the stern, I can put a finger on the part that is most odd that I am sure everyon can agree on.  It is the ackward transition from spoon shaped traditional "liner" stern to the flat surface required for the pods to perform.  It is the fold or crease that is highlighted as two unique surfaces meeting that just does not look right.  I wish that they "faired" or smoothed that transition more.  I suspect there were many versions studied and eventually, when the definitive book on QM2's design is written, perhaps we shall see more of the design studies.

[ancoaster78]

Hey,

I deffinatly agree how awesome it is a true performance liner was built, and about the bow too, I love the bow, and the forward end fo the superstructure and bridge, really very very well done!

The stern of the hull was chosen for practical purposes, I understand the compromise made, and am very happy the choice they made was made instead of a regular transom stern, but some alterations to the funnel and after end of the superstructure could lift it to the level of perfection we enjoyed with QE2, maybe anyone would like to add thier photoshopped suggestions, just for fun?!

Cheers 

[534]

After seeing her out in the Atlantic from the QE2, I have to say she looked marvellous. I think Stephen Payne did a masterful job in keeping the accountants somewhat at bay. I think that she age gracefully and take on character.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

[A whaleback is] the part that is V-shaped, designed to wash aside the Atlantic off the bows... If you look at a picture of Normandie's bow, which at the time was utterly revolutionary (compare to QM's messy arrangement even though QM was newer), you can see it clearly.  QM(1) didn't have one, QE2 sort of has one incorporated but its not so obvious, QM2 does!

Does Chris's excellent photograph show us what a whaleback looks like? Whatever this is, it is huge (look at the ladder going up!) :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chriscunard/4879000982/

Chris, you must have enjoyed walking round the QM2 bow     !

[Magic Pipe]

A "whaleback" and a break water are two different things.  A whaleback is a sloped or curved transition between the deck and the side plating.  The V-shaped structure on the foredeck is a breakwater.  The QM2 has a break water, but does not have a whaleback.  The Normandie had a whaleback located in front of her breakwater, which I suspect is the origin of the confusion of the two terms.

[Scott Ebersold]

Thanks Magic Pipe.  I can completely see the difference now.  Thanks!
I was looking around for a free pic on the internet but I couldn't find one.  You can see both pretty clearly on pg. 72 of John Maxton-Graham's book, "Normandie".

The message just above was written earlier.   ... now that I wrote that I've got sucked in to JMG's Queen Mary book and on p. 30 he says, referring to QM2, "At the bottom of the bridge screen's slope are two resonances from anther of Payne's ocean liner favorites, the French Line's Normandie.  The white steel arc of a whaleback conceals the forward mooring machinery, and a stout, V-shaped breakwater - shaped like an inverted locomotive's snowplow - serves as a supplementary line of defense against encroaching seas."

So now I am confused.  I see there is a difference between a breakwater and a whaleback and I think I can see the whaleback on Normandie but I'm not sure where to look for it on QM2, apparently it's there ... but what am I looking at?  The V-shape is the break water, what am I looking for to see the whaleback?

-scott

[Scott Ebersold]

Okay... I found one last thing, that might help clear this up (and this is from wikipedia but it makes sense in terms of what I last posted, '"Yet another application of the term [whaleback] is to a sheltered portion of the forward deck"

[Magic Pipe]

The QM2 does not have a whaleback.  If you look at a photo of the Normandie, forward of the breakwater there is a slender portion of flat deck shaped like a V, which was painted a shade of grey that distinguished it from white.  To either side of that area of flat deck, the deck slopes downward to meet the ship's side.  That sloped area is a whale back, and is painted white.  QM2 just has a flat deck forward of the break water.