Not RMS!

[Twynkle]

Yes - there are lots of references to the Royal Mail by sea, 'shipping mail' etc
and because my eyes dimmed well during further exploration, it was difficult to find out exactly when Cunard and other lines were awarded the contract with the Royal Mail itself.

This link comes from wikipedia - so probably needs further authentication
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Royal-Mail-Ship
(Warning -  Please open carefully!! You may need some sun specs before clicking on this!
http://www.merchantnavyofficers.com/rm1.html)

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, that ^^^^^ does list the QE2 and it does also state - as I suspected - that the prefix applied only when actually carrying mail.  So logically that implies that QE2 was indeed entitled to the prefix, whether bestowed formally or not, on those occasions when the mail was on board.

I note the article also mentions the Royal Mail pennant may ( but that doesn't mean it has to! ) be flown when mail is on board.  So the next step in this investigation is, presumably, to see whether any photographs exist of her flying this particular flag...?

[holynougat]

To the best of my knowledge the RMS pre-fix only refers to Royal Mail Ship

ie as others above have pointed out this is only supposed to be use by ships that carry mail in any format from the British Royal Mail.  The classification of the ships powerplant be it SS or MV is of no significance to the RMS - the ship can be an RMS regardless of its powerplant, in essence it is an extra prefix to the ships name.

jdl

I'm sure you are right on this - but for example the QM2 is not RMS M/V Queen Mary 2, and neither is the St Helena, I think the key difference is that some ships are permanently designated RMS, while others are technically entitled to the title only while carrying mail...

[Michael Gallagher]

QE2 was entitled to be an RMS but was never made so for the reasons so far given. Cunard wanted to position the ship as something 'new' and labelling her as RMS was seen as too much of a throwback. I have seen correspondence involving Sir Basil Smallpiece (Cunard Chairman in 1969) rejecting RMS usage. I have also had the opportunity to discuss this with John Whitworth (Cunard MD in 1969) and he confirmed this.

However, this ruling does not seem to have been adhered to on the ship itself. Examples of cabin stationary (printed on board) clearly state 'RMS Queen Elizabeth 2' and several merchandise items do too. I think that is where the confusion comes from. One hand stated one thing while the other stated the opposite.

QM2 is an RMS but that is very rarely used by Cunard in it's marketing material.

[Peter Mugridge]

^^^^^

That's interesting and also a bit surprising; I'd have thought the extra prestige from having the RMS would be a very valuable marketing aid for the QM2?

[Jem]

I'm sure you are right on this - but for example the QM2 is not RMS M/V Queen Mary 2, and neither is the St Helena, I think the key difference is that some ships are permanently designated RMS, while others are technically entitled to the title only while carrying mail...

Slightly confused as it states on the vessels website she is RMS St Helena and I assume the only other remaining one of the two is RMS QM2. Could you explain why nether of these vessel are not RMS? Thanks

[holynougat]

Sorry for the confusion, both the QM2 and St Helena are RMS.

I was just addressing an earlier post where someone said that the title was in addition to the more standard MV or SS etc. and was pointing out the QM2 was Simply RMS QM2, not RMS MV QM2.

[Jem]

Sorry for the confusion, both the QM2 and St Helena are RMS.

I was just addressing an earlier post where someone said that the title was in addition to the more standard MV or SS etc. and was pointing out the QM2 was Simply RMS QM2, not RMS MV QM2.

Thanks for that. All makes sense now.

[cunardqueen]

So if QM2 is an RMS What type of mail did or does she carry?  Given her new schedules is it to be assumed its surface itmes as they seem to take forever to reach the other side of the pond 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, two days slower than QE2 she may be, but such is the state of shipping these days that she is still the fastest vessel across the Atlantic!

[Cruisemarsh]

I am pretty sure she was an RMS. She carried mail on her for Royal Mail and I am pretty sure there are photos of her flying the Royal Mail flag. But I will stand corrected if there is proof that she wasn't an RMS.

[holynougat]

No reference was made on QE2's official documents to the title RMS, and the Royal Mail never designated her RMS, so no, she was not an RMS...

[Rob Lightbody]

QE2 was entitled to be an RMS but was never made so for the reasons so far given. Cunard wanted to position the ship as something 'new' and labelling her as RMS was seen as too much of a throwback. I have seen correspondence involving Sir Basil Smallpiece (Cunard Chairman in 1969) rejecting RMS usage. I have also had the opportunity to discuss this with John Whitworth (Cunard MD in 1969) and he confirmed this.

However, this ruling does not seem to have been adhered to on the ship itself. Examples of cabin stationary (printed on board) clearly state 'RMS Queen Elizabeth 2' and several merchandise items do too. I think that is where the confusion comes from. One hand stated one thing while the other stated the opposite.

QM2 is an RMS but that is very rarely used by Cunard in it's marketing material.

[pete cain]

Don't know if ' twitter feed' on the site actually feeds into the forum , (I've looked but cannot find links,) said twitter mentions that QE2 was not an RMS, I always believed that she was ,& am sure did most people, however  just to muddy the waters,   P116 of 'TRIBUTE TO A QUEEN', John Maxtone Graham  ''in late April of 1987, the diesel-electric QE2 re-entered service. She is no longer royal mail ship Queen Elizabeth 2  for the company has deceided to relinquish all descriptive, initialled prefixes''. somebody is wrong, I've got a quote.
 Trouble is whilst looking for this info (which I knew I'd read somewhere) , I came across this quote,' THE QE2 A PICTURE HISTORY', William H. Miller Jr.  P64. '' And so,the last chapter of this beloved, highly successful superliner has begun-and, unlikesome other floating hotel projects, her future seems assured with Dubai's  immense wealth.'' I trully trully hope so , thanks to the people who are looking after her (for us all).

[Rob Lightbody]

Hello Pete,

Its an interesting topic - and we're tacking it here - https://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,1392.0.html  !!

To summarise - she was NOT an RMS, ever, but was mistakently thought to be, by many people.