Where would "as is" Hotel QE2 work best ? (Serious Discussion)

[mrkpnh (Malcolm K)]

There was a rumour on the WC that her airconditioning was "keel cooled" and needed her to be travelling at speed for the A/C to be effective. This was also cited as the reason why the A/C was less effective in the tropics than the North Atlantic (not something that I noticed). If this is the case then her onboard A/c must be almost totally ineffective now that she's static and in hot water!

[MrT]

Well I thought the QE2's aircon wasn't too bad!  I was on her in the med last August when it was pretty hot and we were fine, in fact we had a whale of a time...

For me they keep QM2 a bit warm, but also bear in mind some of the "more senior/less active" clientele like life a bit warmer than us young ones...

Heavens, who cares, just let's get the old gal moving again...

Alex.

[highlander0108]

There was a rumour on the WC that her airconditioning was "keel cooled" and needed her to be travelling at speed for the A/C to be effective. This was also cited as the reason why the A/C was less effective in the tropics than the North Atlantic (not something that I noticed). If this is the case then her onboard A/c must be almost totally ineffective now that she's static and in hot water!

Hearing that comment, i would guess that the AC systems use the sea water for cooling, extracting the cooling out of the water in the "heat pump" process.  With much warmer water of Dubai, the BTU's of coolin available is not as great as they would be in say.....CYLDEBANK!  The ship does not have to be moving, just pumping water.  Perhaps some of our resident QE2 engineers can weigh in on the equipment used onboard.  In October, my 5 deck cabin AC worked perfectly.  the cabin got quite warm with it turned off, as the cabin steward seemed to do every day.  I think it was due to our proximity to the engine room below.  I recall reading that the AC systems have been upgraded over time and that a cargo hold was converted to house the additional AC equipment; perhaps it was the car area.

Ken

[Jem]

Yes, thats what this thread is meant to be discussing.  Only this.  The medium and long term can wait, there's a "problem" to solve RIGHT NOW.

Rob, I think the only solution 'right now' is for her to visit various ports around the world. She stays in port until the revenue starts to drop and off she goes to her next 'money making' event. Right now she's sitting there not earning her present owners a penny and draining their cash! Just get her out of that heat and earning her keep! Nakeel need to do a big PR event announcing she's coming. Maybe show clips of her in her element, crossing the Atlantic. Some thing  like 'Live the dream, come onboard and experience the ultimate in true liner luxury.'

Cheers.

[Bob C.]

Rob, I think the only solution 'right now' is for her to visit various ports around the world.

Agree, and to make her more appealing, perhaps Nakheel could make good on their original promise to return her to her original "space age" decor (e.g. red, white and blue tones throughout the ship, spiral staircase in the Double Room, etc.)  Then she would truly be a piece of history and a bigger draw than just another tired crusie ship.  They could include displays and themes on:

British shipbuilding specifically John Brown
Fauklands and QE2's role
QE2's rescues at sea
Royals and celelbrities on QE2
86 refit
Trans-Atlantic/Cunard History
Trans-Atlantic Heyday - Immagrants, Titanic, Olympic, Maury, Lucy, QM, QE, plus other "ia's", "ic's" and lines.

Stay aboard in 1st Class or experience a 5 Deck cabin - perhaps redo a few as comemorations of "steerage" (view only) . 
Merchandising will be a money maker as will concessions.

The potential topics and possibilities are virtually unlimited.

Will it make money?  Depends on the business plan but it will certainly make more than sitting empty and idle in Dubai.

As a model comparison, the Hotel Del Coronado here in San Diego (http://www.hoteldel.com) has a lot of this sort of nostalgai coursing throughout it's floors.  It was built in 1888 with small rooms when compared to other modern luxury hotels in the area and has had several changes made over the years (restaurant and entertainment expansion/modernization, a few upgraded luxury rooms added, etc.) just as QE2 has but "Hotel Del", as it is referred to locally, remains essentially the way it looked in 1888 (just as QE2 does from 1969) and thrives today on it's location, history, nostalgia and 5 star service.

QE2 can have any location Nakheel wants because she can be easliy moved and her history, nostalgia and service can travel with her. 

Seems viable to me.

[Bob C.]

Just thought of this too.  Museums have exhibit road shows where the displays travel to locations for months to years.  Combine the museum exhibit road show and Hotel del concepts and I think you have a winning (and profitable) future for QE2!

[MiamiCunarder]

  Hmm..  Me still thinks Miami would make a suitable home. 


  Ron

[LegendOfTheSeas]

QE2 and her predecessors have been staunch Liverpudlians!

Not wishing to start a Liverpool vs Southampton flame war but 'QE2 a staunch Liverpudlian'? I don't think so! Her homeport for best part of 40 years was Southampton and 'Southampton' was the port of registry on her stern until recently replaced by Port Vila. Southampton, not Liverpool.
The previous Queens had Liverpool on their sterns, but never visited there, being based in Southampton throughout their lives (apart from during WW2).

[flagship]

But QE2 is a child of Liverpool as she was designed in the Cunard Building in the Pierhead and all the major decisions about her design and construction were made in Liverpool. So, Clydeside, Southampton and Liverpool can all claim her as their own in some way.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

But QE2 is a child of Liverpool as she was designed in the Cunard Building in the Pierhead and all the major decisions about her design and construction were made in Liverpool. So, Clydeside, Southampton and Liverpool can all claim her as their own in some way.

I do feel that Bremerhaven has to be added to this list -- not because it has in any way entered the fray to offer her a home, but because QE2 owes much of her past twenty years to that amazing refit, of which the people of Bremerhaven were (and quite possibly still are) so proud...

... but I don't want to take this thread off topic either... 

[Scott Ebersold]

Just last weekend I was looking out a window at the old superliner piers - basically empty except the sole (unattractive) Carnival Triumph.  And I thought of how excited I used to get seeing QE2 there.   Tied up right next door to the superliner piers is the USS Intrepid with none other than Concorde on her decks.  There is already a "military maritime museum" tied up to the piers with a whole food and beverage complex.  All they'd need to do is tie QE2 up next door and it would round out the experience (and in my opinion greatly improve the experience).  People could stay in QE2 visiting NYC with amazing views of the mid-town skyline before embarking on other journeys or for conventions ... or just as a hotel.

That said, since Southampton and NYC were her original main ports, and Miami a second home in cruising season,  they all sound like sound options.

[citrail]

I'd have to agree, New York purely because of vistor numbers and other local attractions. I'd love to see her come home to anywhere in the UK but somehow I don't think we'd have market to sustain her.

[Bob C.]

I'd have to agree, New York purely because of vistor numbers and other local attractions. I'd love to see her come home to anywhere in the UK but somehow I don't think we'd have market to sustain her.

How about opening it up to competition?  Cruise QE2 around to potential ports (short list) on a "farewell tour", per the plan in my above posts, with the intent and full disclosure that the ports are competing to win her as a permanent attraction.

Those withthe best sustained turn out wins.  This plan makes Nakheel money while "testing the waters" for the best place to permanently berth her. 

[sotonsean]

How long ago were you in Southampton?

The Carnival HQ is already built and is on West Quay Road further along from the Holiday Inn and not at Town Quay as you stated.

Who is going to pay Intercontinental Hotels Group the owners of Holiday Inn to move to a new location.

Even if a pier was built sticking out from Mayflower Park this would seriously hinder the navigational channel leading upto the Western Docks plus berth 101 is the middle swinging ground so not a possibility!

Also you have to take into consideration that Mayflower Park hosts the annual Southampton Boat Show and this land is committed to this every year, in fact a 5 year contract has just been renewed with the show's organisers.

Also the 'warehouses you mention' at berths 101/102 is the current 'City Cruise Terminal' used by Royal Caribbean Cruises, Celebrity Cruises, Fred Olsen Cruises, Saga Cruises so again not a possible!

The site at Woolston as you state is largely residential as that is where I live, alot of dredging would have to be undertaken to bring her alongside but that will never happen as this land has been sold for development.

Picture shows Queen Victoria alongside the City Cruise Terminal at berth 101 on 22nd April 2008 with QE2 further down the quay in refit at berth 105

[Rob Lightbody]

Sean,

Fascinating reply.

I don't know S'ton well at all... are we really saying there is nowhere for her to safely go (soon) ?  If so we should count it out.  Whats next most likely on the list?  I wanted this thread to be realistic options, so if s'ton is a no-go, lets work out what is!

And, again, we're talking somewhere she could go now - short term, not long term.  Somewhere needing zero alterations.

[nigelrob]

Hi usqe2fan
It would be interesting to know why you left Merseyside off your list?
There are many appropriate things about this area that would fulfill all the conditions that QE2 will be needing.
Not least a workforce that would be ready and willing to manage and provide for her, both as a ship and as hotel.
QE2 and her predecessors have been staunch Liverpudlians!
Thanks
Rosie

 I agree Liverpool should be included this was Cunards home until they moved to Southampton. The only ports that should be considered should be Liverpool, Southampton and the Clyde she is British built and like the old QM should have never have left the UK but money always wins. The big U was really built as a stand by troop ship as the American navy wanted something similar to the QE1 and QM1 that could carry lots of troops or be used as a hospital ship..

[mickey g]

for me the QE2 need to return in Southampton or where she born in glasgow but i have a another place for her Lisbon !! a wonderful place  with a very big abandonned drydock in front of the city  a new city project propose by the famous english Architect sir Richard Rogers the architect of the scottich parliament

[Rob Lightbody]

Out of curiosity, and wanting to make this topic more "real", I've been putting some feelers out, and I believe that my Vancouver proposal makes it onto the shortlist for viable solutions ... it sounds like they would welcome her with open arms.

[Chris]

Fantastic Rob! Perhaps it's a good time for you send some details to QE2_DBX?

[Queet-two]

I wonder has anyone approached the world's greatest restorer of beautiful vehicles, James Sherwood of the Orient Express.  The UK train often acted as boat train to the QE2 (and I believe still does for other cruise ships).
Against all the odds and at amazing expense he restored the UK trains (plus the Royal Scotsman) and the European one.  And has revived a number of hotels too including Venice's Hotel Cipriani.
This is what Wikipedia says:  "Orient-Express Hotels Ltd  is a hotel and leisure company that operates high end hotels, cruise and train services around the world. As of 2008 it owns or partly owns more than 40 individual deluxe hotels, three restaurants, six tourist trains and two river cruise businesses in more than 25 countries world-wide."
Our lovely lady is a bigger prospect, but she could fit well into their portfolio as a tourist/museum/ restaurant concept with hotel facilities with price points from affordable five deck to the top end suites.  Yes I'd love S'ton or L'pool or Glasgow, or roving ambassador but anywhere would do.  She just needs a rich sugar daddy.

Pat
PS  I've posted onto <QE2 Dubai Concept Models> as well
http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,454.msg12122.html#msg12122

[Twynkle]

Hey Rob!

It's good to know that there is a short list   and a degree of curiosity might be interesting here!

If it turns out that Vancouver is the selected place for the mid-term, then please could we make a plea for her to do a slow twirl round the UK first?

Yes - I know that the UK ain't on the way to Vancouver from Dubai - or is it?  And Vancouver isn't on any of the World Cruise routes etc etc     (btw - I'm still waiting to hear about other enquiries I made some time ago, there's no news yet...)
Rosie
 

[Rob Lightbody]

With the news breaking (http://bit.ly/3rQVYd) that QE2 may never return to Dubai, her Final Destination remains undecided.  That makes this topic all the more important.

The Cape Town move may yet go ahead, but has only ever been stated as being temporary.  So the question is - where realistically - is ready and willing for her now (if cape town falls through) and where is ready for her in the longer term...

My latest plan?  Move her to Edinburgh, Scotland - while at the same time relocating the Royal Yacht Britannia to both ships birthplace to Clydebank.

[Twynkle]

Hey Rob!

My latest plan?  Move her to Edinburgh, Scotland - while at the same time relocating the Royal Yacht Britannia to both ships birthplace to Clydebank.

That's such a very good idea!

If not alongside, QE2 could (easily?) be layed-up in the Firth of Forth!
 - Visited by people from other passenger ships, from Edinburgh, Greenock, Invergordon, Newcastle upon Tyne  and ....
   not forgetting the entire population of the British Isles and the rest of the world.
 - Cunard would be able to add her to the shore excursion visiting list
 -There'd be plenty of people who would act as in-house QE2 Guides etc etc
 - QE2 for Hogmanay: The Maiden Forum Party!

(And when the time comes for giving consideration to her being 'at rest',
I understand that she could fit into the dry dock at Inch Green, on The Clyde).

(Curiously, Rob - I was thinking exactly the same thing at almost exactly the same time!    )
Link to Forth Ports
http://www.forthports.co.uk/ports/index.jsp
This is a link to an article in The Observer 2008...
http://jackiekemp.com/business-and-media/74-last-ditch-battle-for-the-future-of-edinburghs-historic-waterfront

[LegendOfTheSeas]

While I am from the South Coast and would love to see her back home in Southampton, frankly, at the moment, I would be happy to see her anywhere in the UK - don't care where: Southampton, Clydebank, wherever, as long as she was back in her home country. We would be happier and - if ships have souls, like the old sailors claim they do - so would QE2 herself.

[highlander0108]

Bring her back to Scotland! I know that Clydebank is a long shot, but there are so many reasons why having a local connection is better suited to the long term viability of keeping the ship as a hotel/landmark/national treasure.  There are links on my blog of the various Clydebank development projects either ongoing or in the works.  Can you think of a better thing to have located on the Clyde to draw tourists to the area?

http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

I was awestruck of the beauty of the Clyde when I first visited the area last year.  She could be tied up in Greenock for that matter for the time being and that would be a major draw to the area.  I could see excursion boats traveling from Glasgow to visit her.  Of course Rob's idea works too at the Leith docks, but I suspect some major harbor work would be in order to have her tied up alongside a pier for easy access.

Now for something completely different...Now brace yourselves to be thorougly upset after reading what follows.  The other night I was filing ship pictures I had gathered and one that I saved due to the distinctive added stern appendages caught my eye.  It was the Athena.  A little Google search was in order. This ship is actually quite famous as she is the Stockholm of Andrea Doria fame.  She had a 150 million US dollar refurbishment on a ship that is even older than QE2!  If this amount of money can be done on much less famous ship, which required a MAJOR rework, it is not out of the question that this could not have been done to bring QE2 up to SOLAS standards.  So....if we can't find a port, find a buyer to fix her up and figure out how to get those clauses voided from Cunard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Athena
http://www.classicintcruises.com/athena.htm

[junglejames]

Ignoring possible clauses in the contract, it is very plausible that she could go to sea again as a passenger liner.
Ships can always be fixed, and fixed again!
Yes work would need to be done to her. The plumbing and AC would need major work, as this is in a bad state. Floods and leaks were not uncommon in her final year. Also works to bring her in line with SOLAS.

Asbestos is mentioned as something to throw a spanner in the works.
This would be a problem, but not one that couldnt be overcome.
Also, does anyone know for sure how much asbestos she has? She has had internal refits before, and it doesnt seem to have caused problems.

The problem is, the cost of a refit would probably be a lot more now, as she has been laid up for over a year. More work may well need to be done.
Does anybody know what state she is in internally? Ive heard its not good.

So, from a business point of view, the cost of any refit now to bring her back into service may be prohibitive.

Then we have to look at the possible clause in the contract.

As for sailing her around the world to have her as a temporary attraction in numerous ports, is this really cost effective?
Where is the money coming from to move her from A to B? You are seriously underestimating how much she costs to get moving.
So you make a tiny bit of money in Sydney, then you burn 20 times that amount in getting her to Yokohama.
Make a tiny bit more money, then burn 30 times that amount to get her across the Pacific to LA.

I can see business men laughing right now.
Remember carrying fare paying passengers on these runs probably cannot happen.

One return trip to Cape Town is one thing, but taking her all around the world is another.

So unfortunately we are probably looking at a permanent home for her to become a floating hotel, conference centre, restaurant, night club, bar, wedding venue etc etc.

My prefered destinations- Southampton and Clydebank, followed by Leith, although I admit Vancouver sounds like a nice idea, as does Sydney, but both are too far away for me to comprehend!!

To me she should be permanently moored alongside the Queen Elizabeth II terminal. Right at the head of the docks, and the first thing arriving ships would see. A perfect 'Welcome to Southampton'.
But that is my heart speaking. Not my head, as this would never be allowed.The next best thing would be the cruise terminal next to Mayflower Park, but again, this is a working cruise terminal.

Im not sure what space there is in Southampton. I havent looked enough into it.

As for Clydebank, Im sure space could be found a lot easier. It would be a perfect start to regnerating that whole area. Only problem is, what are transport links like in that area?

Oh, and the engines must stay, whether they are running or not. It would be nice to keep them running as they are now, but I think we have to accept this will not be feasible. It adds too much to the running costs.


James

 

[JimWinsor]

They should put her in the dry dock where she was built?....I live here in Kingston Ontario Canada and we have a Marine Museum here.There is a dry dock there as it was part of the  local shipyard during WW II.It now houses a Canadian Coast Guard cutter( retired ) ALEXANDER HENRY.The ship is in the dry dock permanently.It now serves as a bed and breakfast for the city and all the tourists it draws in.This may be a good idea as well for QE 2 if it were to return to Britian.

[highlander0108]

Her fitting out basin is waiting for her in Clydebank, adjacent to the Titan crane that helped fit her out.   The slipway where she was built, next to the fitting out basin, is now home to a community college, but there is a plaque where the slipway once stood.  The area is currently under construction with a major redevelopement plan in place that, to me, does not pay homage to the history of the shipbuilding industry whatsoever.  It looks like there is mixed income apartments planned to line the fitting out basin.  In time, few will remember what took place in that basin, the fitting out of all three great Queens as well as many navy ships. 

Having QE2 return to the Clyde is a dream, but not totally unrealistic.  The fitting out basin would have to be dredged for starters.  Her foremast and funnel would have to be temporarily removed to fit under a bridge, and plans would have to be modified for the area.  I cannot imagine a better place for her if not Southampton.  As the original Queens were built, putting local people to work, so would the conversion of the ship to a permanent tourist destination for the Glasgow/Edinburgh area.  See my blog link below for info on Clydebank and the redevelopment plans.

Having said that, if she were relocated to Southampton, she would make a great place to overnight before or after returning on a Cunard voyage, rather than staying at the Holiday Inn.  Either way, she belongs back in the UK.

Ken

[Twynkle]

For a short -term 'waiting' period, does anyone know whether it would be possible for QE2 to be sailed to Loch Striven, close to the Clyde?
Although there's a small amount of ongoing opposition to the few 18 month old cargo ships of same length as QE2 already there, waiting for the economic upturn upturn - wouldn't it seem a good plan in the interim period?

This would buy her new owner or lease-holder time - and allow for plans that suit everyone for her to become a much loved, well used 'fixture' back in the UK.

[mickey g]

According to yesterday's London Evening Standard, QE2 is already moored in Cape Town!!!! This was mentioned twice in an article concerning the Dubai financial crisis.

[LegendOfTheSeas]

For a short -term 'waiting' period, does anyone know whether it would be possible for QE2 to be sailed to Loch Striven, close to the Clyde?
Although there's a small amount of ongoing opposition to the few 18 month old cargo ships of same length as QE2 already there, waiting for the economic upturn upturn - wouldn't it seem a good plan in the interim period?

This would buy her new owner or lease-holder time - and allow for plans that suit everyone for her to become a much loved, well used 'fixture' back in the UK.

She could just as easily be laid up in Southampton or the Fal.

[Twynkle]

That's interesting, Legend of the Seas.
Do you have current information from the Port Authority, and Harbour Master regarding the technical feasibility of a lay up,
taking into account her length and draft?

[highlander0108]

It needs to be a bigger city, or an area with a bigger population within range of the ship.  Think QM1 at Long Beach, for example.  This means she won't threaten local businesses.
It needs to have moderate temperatures, although i suspect too cold would be better than too hot.
It needs to "like british things".
It preferably needs to appreciate old things - shabby chic! rather than luxury=glitzy.
Preferably, it needs to have not too much "wow" that QE2 will just disappear into it all...
It doesnt necessarily need to have an amazing waterfront/port, but QE2 must be visible from land I think.
High unemployment might be useful, but this might cancel out potential profits from visitors I suppose...

It seems to me that anything at all is better than our freshly painted and re-registered QE2 just sitting at Port Rashid baking and getting dusty in the desert... so lets think of somewhere.

Rob, I think you just described anywhere on the Clyde.     Bringing her back home would require a substantial  investment with crew and fuel.  If she did ever return, you best chain her down so they can't take her away again.  Reminds me of the grounding on the Brambles.....

[LegendOfTheSeas]

That's interesting, Legend of the Seas.
Do you have current information from the Port Authority, and Harbour Master regarding the technical feasibility of a lay up, taking into account her length and draft?

Of course I don't - BUT the Fal is a well-known lay up area for large ships, as is Southampton. Even an anchorage out in the Solent. Not very long ago, some large bulk carriers QE2's size were laid up in Southampton, as were some vehicle carriers and, bearing in mind large ships (including QE2 herself of course until last year) use Southampton as a base then there's no reason why she shouldn't be laid up here.

Going on Rob's criteria, the South Coast fits the bill as easily as the Clyde does.

[Cruise_Princess]

No one would love it more than  me to have QE2 near by on the Clyde so I could see see her all the time....but financially and realistically I don't  think it would ever happen...mores the pity....but somehow I think Sydney could be a good home for her...the Aussies really took her to their hearts , Im sure she would be looked after and there is plenty of tourism out there to keep her going.....what do you think?

[mickey g]

I think you are right Cruise Princess, I've thought it many times that Sydney would be ideal as it is screamily obvious that, not only do the Aussies love her, but also they have escaped the worst of the recession.............just a thought 

[Chris]

This is a suggestion from a friend I met aboard QE2 in 2008:

I sometimes read the forums but for now, I'm not really a joiner but I do love to read what other people are saying.......my only contribution for the ongoing talk about a new home for QE2 would be the birthplace of her founder, Samuel Cunard... in Halifax, Nova Scotia....a beautiful waterfront harbour.....

Sounds good... I wonder if anyone has any sway in Halifax?

[Matt]

Oh why not send the dear old girl down under! Here to Australia!
 There are various ports across Australia that could cater for the QE2, What you would firstly think of would be Sydney. Yes this port could cater for the QE2, and a port that is very familiar with the QE2 as i believe she visited here every (definitely most) years during her World Cruise's. Also Melbourne could be another place worth of catering for the QE2. I also believe Fremantle Port would be a great home for the Queen Elizabeth 2 as this port has quite a large berthing are on the passenger side of the Port, However more parking bays would be needed. This could be catered for in numerous of the old buildings which line the port, that are no longer utilised. If there were worries actually knocking these old historic buildings down, they could keep the 'faces' of the buildings and construct new internal structures in to a multi story car park, anything is possible these days!
 Western Australia has an always increasing population of British, which would cater for the demands of the QE2 as it is obviously where she originated from, being based in Southampton, so the right crowd is here! The weather this side of Aus is fantastic and wouldn’t be too hot for QE2 for too many days of the year!
 So Australia surely has some spots that are worthy of housing the QE2! She is dearly loved here, and had a massive turn out every time she would dock in our ports, going to Fremantle myself to see thousands of people lining Victoria Quay, and the North and South Mole's. She was dearly loved and we would welcome her once again with open arms, and would surely support the dear old Girl!

[Chris]

I second Beepers' notion! Would be wonderful to have QE2 down under! Do you know anyone at Sydney or Fremantle Port Authority?

[Matt]

I second Beepers' notion! Would be wonderful to have QE2 down under! Do you know anyone at Sydney or Fremantle Port Authority?

 Thanks Chris, it could be a very possible option indeed, having the QE2 down here!

Unfortunately I do not know anyone who is directly involved with the Sydney or Fremantle Port Authorities, However I do live close to Fremantle Port and could always pop down and drop in a line to the manager there with a suggestion or so? What do you think?
 Last time I was down in the port watching a Sun Princess departure, I noticed that posted on the side of the cranes was the 'DP World' logo, which is a subsidy of Dubai, if I am not mistaken? (Photo Attatched). So this could mean that Dubai has good connections with Fremantle, and I’m sure this would be the case in Sydney too, so it would make sense as having our ports as a possible berthing location for the QE2, especially if they aimed on promoting their company?
 And of course both the QE2 and the past crew enjoyed their stay in Australia, so what could be better for numerous people from across the globe to stay on this British icon in such a beautiful location, remembering Australia is a part of the British Commonwealth, so the QE2 would still be very in touch with Britain!
Regards, Matt.

[Chris]

Thanks for that photo of QE2's departure. I was aboard and VERY proud of the send off Fremantle gave QE2. Australia gave QE2 the most magnificent farewell, it was wonderful (albeit very sad).

[Matt]

Thanks for that photo of QE2's departure. I was aboard and VERY proud of the send off Fremantle gave QE2. Australia gave QE2 the most magnificent farewell, it was wonderful (albeit very sad).

 No Problems Chris, I did have a tear in my eye as the QE2 departed, knowing I wouldn’t see her again anytime soon, especially sailing in to my home port! When the QE2 was arriving and departing in Fremantle, it made quite big news, on the TV and Radio, It was even announced that she would be departing an hour late, so I am lead to believe! The QE2 really was close to us Aussies, and i believe, as you said our send-off's were truly magnificent, it proves that we are a worth location to house the QE2 as she would be looked after and cherished well!

 I have to say, I was very proud of our Fremantle send-off as it had such an amazing vibe to it, a real community feel, and I felt very connected with the people onboard also as everyone farewelled each other, and more importantly the beautiful ship with such roar and the spirit surely was there! Where were you located when the ship departed Fremantle, Chris?

 I will draft up a letter to the Port Authorities to see if they have any pull on the situation, and see the overall interest in such an investment, even though they obviously wouldn’t own the old Gal! Berthing her here, or Sydney of course would be a very wise decision for Nakheel  to make as she was so dearly loved, and would without a doubt be financially supported here, especially as we have a large number of English, myself included, and such a large amount of tourists which enter Australia every day. Consider it Nakheel, it would be a very wise choice!

 What does everyone else on the Forum think about such a location? It would be a nice location to visit her, especially with the immaculate weather for most of the year, Makes for good photographs! And especially with a decent Ferry system in both Perth and Sydney which would take you very close to the QE2, Great publicity for Nakheel too I would say, who wouldn’t want to stay aboard the QE2?

Thanks,
Matt.

[Cruisemarsh]

QE2 would work well as a hotel in Southampton. Ideally it should be her home on the Clyde but that is not realistic. Imagine, the sight of the QE2 once again in the Solent, sailing up and docking permanently in the Hampshire town. She is well loved in Southampton and would be readily welcomed back there. Southampton has a rich martime and nautical history and it's that connection with the liners that would really befit Southampton as the new home for the QE2. I certainly would go and stay on her if she came back to British waters, she is a real icon of the great days of shipbuiilding in the UK and for that I am proud that she has had a career of her magnitude. Long live the QE2.

[qe2-I-luved-it]

Southampton!  I LIVE HERE!  I would like to see the QE2 prosper in her retirement days in a good shape and kept in a good well thought out location, where she will be able to make a good income for her owners.

 
where ever she ends up. she must make a good turn over by being a super cash cow. lol. like she was for cunard.  if she doesn't then who's going to keep up with her upkeep. you will  need a  high turn over to keep her away from the scrap man and as i was sayng, Southampton worked well for her in her ocean going days but only because she wasn't permanently moored there fulltime!  she was in and out sharpish. just there for a few hours during turn around and then gone. lol

you have to rememeber that. And i do like southampton by the way! but the place is a bit down in the mouth. its just a dockside town and the qe2 needs something better than that to survie.  you can't afford to be sentimental about this subject! she will never go back to southamton, for her own sake!. it wouldn't do her any good in the long run anyway by being moored there for any amount of time. 

southamton council can't even look after the calshot properly.  The calshot is tender/tug boat that was in service when the titanic's sister ship the olimpic and QM was nocking around southampton back in the day. she know seems to the have been left moored up for years just near the qe2 terminal and almost forgotten except by a team of volunteers who work on her regular to keep her in shape.  I remember seeing on local tv some time ago that southampton council couldn't afford to keep her afloat at the dockside and was thinking of giving her up for scrap.  So when your thinking about something as big as the QE2 being moored permanently in southampton then it has to be some kind of a joke!

At the moment. the qe2 looks by all those photo's thats just been posted here, that dubia are taking real good care of the old girl.  she needs it and she deserves a final place that befits her name. not some dirty back water like southampton. Sorry, southampton but a pig is a pig and you cant change that. no matter how you try and dress it up!

Long Live QE2..

[Chris]

Where were you located when the ship departed Fremantle, Chris?

I was in the "Bit Under the Bridge" as we sailed into one of the most beautiful sunsets I've ever seen.

The send off was fantastic. QE2 was an hour late arriving in Fremantle as there was a container ship that was holding up our arrival. Therefore, Captain McNaught decided to leave an hour late which was excellent as the crowds just grew and grew.

I was actually interviewed by a number of TV and Radio stations that day, the press were everywhere, it was an awesome vibe.

[rough crossing]

qe2-I-luved-it,

I well understand your point about Southampton Council - and I did wonder about the Calshot - but if the QE2 ever came back, I can't imagine the Council would be involved financially at all - it would have to be a commercial venture involving either new or current owners, a hotel operator and the Port. 

[Chris]

I suppose it's too late to use QE2 in Vancouver for the 2010 Winter Olympics?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Olympic

Even if maybe she was just a dining venue / function centre (probably too late to start taking hotel bookings given the games start in Feb).

[Rob Lightbody]

To be precise

Here

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=G81+1BF&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.564064,81.5625&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Clydebank,+Dunbartonshire+G81+1BF,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.868497,-4.352345&spn=0.010908,0.039825&t=h&z=15

[Cruise_Princess]

Having said that, if she were relocated to Southampton, she would make a great place to overnight before or after returning on a Cunard voyage, rather than staying at the Holiday Inn.  Either way, she belongs back in the UK.

Ken

Just been looking at another cruise site that mentions QE2 returning to Southampton...

I have to say that in the unlikely event of this ever happening iI would of course be ECSTATIC!  So much so that I would regularly go to Southampton to stay on board her and just not bother cruising on any of the ugly cruise ships coming in and out of the port....

After all  being on board QE2 going nowhere far outsells any of the cruise ships going anywhere.......Don't  you agree???

[Peter Mugridge]

I'd certainly take the family to stay on board her back at Southampton more than once...

May I ask, which cruise site says this and if it's something they've just put up on it?

[Cruise_Princess]

I'd certainly take the family to stay on board her back at Southampton more than once...

May I ask, which cruise site says this and if it's something they've just put up on it?

hi its Victoria Travels site    WWW.CRUISE.CO.UK

They are always a bit behind with news and put this up to catch your eye in email  .......QE2 homeward bound..?...

[Britannic9370]

Hi all.

Like many others I would hate to see QE2 go to the scrap yard, and feel there is definitely a home for her to be had here in Britain. I for one would prefer for her to go to Glasgow for obvious reasons. Southampton would probably be the most logical place for her but as Southampton will be getting one of the Saga twins when they retire, I cannot see the city supporting 2 old ships, especially not one the size of QE2.

Glasgow however is a different matter. Firstly there is the heritage factor, not to mention that QE2 would be the perfect accomodation venue for the 2014 Commonwealth Games to be held in the city.

The ship could be run as 3 seperate hotels, for example the high end market could be managed by Hilton, middle of the range by Marriot and the cheapo rooms by Holiday Inn and/or Travel-lodge.

The galleys and restaurants are in working order and could be making money tomorrow, the library could easily be converted to a souvenier shop, and there is more than enough space on board for concert and theatre venues, art galleries ala tate Modern, bars, clubs. And as for the best maritime museum in the country... the list is almost endless.

There need be none of this "Rebuild and modernise" nonsence spouted by Dubai, that costs money and who's got loads of that at the moment? I read yesterday that Norway/France had a scrap value of £15,000,000 - that is not a massive amount and surely Glasgow could come up with the cash seeing that this would be a long term investment.

Surely I can't be the only one who would love to see this?

Maybe someone out there has other better ideas. What do you all think?

Cheers, love Rich

[Twynkle]

An interesting letter  in today's Telegraph!

'Britain should do more to preserve its naval heritage
Liverpool is a World Heritage Maritime City but lacks a significant vessel to represent this.'

SIR – Our wealth was built upon trade created on the seven seas, with a Merchant Navy second to none and a Navy that protected our interests. Yet precious few large ships are preserved in Britain, and the Cutty Sark is one of the few from the 19th century.
There is no Merchant Navy ship larger than 1,800 gross tonnage from the 20th century that visitors can experience. Other nations have done much better. The Dutch have preserved their trans-atlantic liner, the SS Rotterdam, as an example of their fine seagoing traditions, in the port of Rotterdam. We would have to travel to Long Beach, California, to experience the RMS Queen Mary, an icon of the 1930s. We did not keep the QE2, but sold her to a project in Dubai, which has now failed, and the ship is for sale again.
Liverpool is a World Heritage Maritime City, but it has no significant vessel to represent that. Perhaps ship preservation is not cool enough for present-day Britannia, but let us not forget the arduous sea-going lives of those that brought trade to these shores.
Andrew Rutter
Hagley, Worcesteshire'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/7235197/Britain-should-do-more-to-preserve-its-naval-heritage.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone would like to contact The Liverpool Docks and Harbour Company
The Managing Director can be reached here:
http://www.merseydocks.co.uk/contact-us/

http://www.merseydocks.co.uk/
This is the website

(Rob - is this the appropriate place for this post?)

[rough crossing]

An interesting letter  in today's Telegraph!

'Britain should do more to preserve its naval heritage
Liverpool is a World Heritage Maritime City but lacks a significant vessel to represent this.'

I couldn't agree more with the sentiment expressed by this corespondent - whenever I visit former great ports in the UK, I'm always struck how devoid of heritage vessels they are and how the whole ambiance could be improved by suitable ships - it's not as if there's a shortage of heritage vessels looking for a home - a good case in point is the poor old TSS Manxman of 1955 - yet another ship on the 'core list' that looks like it's for the breakers. Wouldn't she look great gracing any port? There's a very sad but evocative pic of her in the current annual report of National Historic Ships:-

www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk

Despite this organisations best endeavours, we're still losing great ships - as a maritime nation, it beats me why we can't put as much effort into historic ships as we do buildings.

[Twynkle]

In the Editors Log in Ships Monthly (March - as yet, unavailable online ), there's a very good discussion regarding QE2 as well as other famous ships, linked with both Alang and Survival.
Some of the reasons for the need for QE2 to survive are quoted below - any thoughts of Alang were dismissed with,' Once she arrives at Alang, that is final. She will be no more than a memory. We should not allow this to happen.

Just over a year ago Manfred Ursprunger, CEO of QE2 Enterprises, Nakheel hotels said, "The investment Nakheel will be making in the QE2 will ensure that she continues to be a beacon of sophistication for generations to come and will maintain her rich heritage and iconic stature'.
....
In QE2's case, there should be a viable commercial project that could keep her for future generations to see....
...A sale by her present owners will be forced by the creditors and every step should be takento save this great memorial to British shipbuilding

From reports in the same issue, it looks as if the Port of Tyne is doing really well - new contracts etc
So - how about the successful, award winning 'Dubai Ports' contributing, with a bit of help from 'everyone else',
possibly Sheik Mohammed himself, even!
There may be those who have the money to pay for QE2, it's helping them to put it on the table that counts!
Great Publicity, too!

And then when he's on a bit of leave, maybe Captain McNaught could bring QE2 home to Newcastle?
Here he is speaking about the virtues of the Tyne
'If I can bring a ship like the QE2 here....'
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIdgvy0IuTg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIdgvy0IuTg</a>
Thanks to ChronicleLive

[Rob Lightbody]

Its a shame we couldn't make more headway with this topic.  This forum has lots more "brains" to mull over this problem than "they" do.  Not another "I wish" topic, but a "I've done some research, made some calls, and here's what I think...".   

[CasinoChris]

Hi there folks,
I would certainly love to see the QE2 back in her homeland, Southampton would be great but how about London?
Let's face it, to support an attraction of her size and operating expense you have to draw a lot of visitors....what's the most visited British city by foreigners???
I'm sure she could be placed in a location easily accessed via public transport, there is plenty of dock space on the Thames.
Hey just an idea here....anyone on friendly terms with Branson etc. I would love to see her preserved in dignified surroundings.
By the by, the Saga Rose, ex Sagafjord is now up the river from Shanghai, Chinese scrappers, very great shame for that great ship to end up there and not preserved somewhere.
All the best
Casino Chris

[Peter Mugridge]

From reading through everything that has been suggested and discussed on here in recent months, my gut instinct is that the best opportunity to bring QE2 back to the UK is the 2012 olympics, helped by there already being dredgers at work in the outer Thames in connection with the new container port near Tilbury.

Howver, it is equally obvious that given the timescales and preparations that would be involved, to achieve this would require a firm positive decision to be made by October / November this year.

Working backwards, that means we need to demonstrate to the owners with verifiable figures that it would be worth their while to do this by probably the end of August, and it would need to be a convincing case.

On this forum we have:

*People who worked on QE2 in an operations and engineering capacity.
*People who worked on QE2 in a hotel and entertainment capacity.
*People who sailed on QE2 as passengers who know what makes a good experience.
*People with business skills, including marketing and accountancy.

So...

To stand any chance of anything happening, we need to put our personal preferences aside ( and that goes for me and my Southampton ideas as well ) and very quickly between us all create and demonstrate a viable business plan that shows it is worth moving her back to the UK on a long term basis (and  that means looking well beyond the high profile 2012 stuff ).

We have one serious shot at this, and one only.

W know a combined hotel / conference centre / theatre / restaurant / heritage operation has the widest appeal and will cover several different markets, maximising both custom and attention.

The outer Thames plan is the one most likely to be viable.

We must therefore concentrate on that.

So let's all get cracking on creating a plan for the owners, shall we?

[Peter Mugridge]

And as a follow up to the above ( posted separately for clarity rather than added in ), first off we need a team of good volunteers organised by their relevant skills, within the four categories listed above, each to work on looking at the costs likely to be involved with each of the specific areas.  each of these teams will need a leader with a lot of experience of those particular areas actually on QE2 herself.

Within each team each volunteer will need to concentrate on a specific aspect of that area.

And we need an overall manager / co-ordinator to oversee the lot.

We need a businesslike structure to the volunteer teams; the four leaders must report to the overall manager; the team members must report to their leaders.  That's the only way we can create a coherent plan in the tight timescale involved.

And we all know, I think, that if this doesn't work there is a high chance of QE2 going from warm lay up to long term cold layup.

[Rob Lightbody]

Great discussion Peter, well done.  I don't actually have anywhere better to suggest... but...

The point of this topic was to find a precise location - an actual dock - that would:
(a) fit QE2, have parking & transport handy, and not leave her hidden from view
(b) be in a suitable city and
(c) be in a suitable country to make it a success.
(d) not too hot.

I've just been looking at a map - Tilbury is a whopping 27+ miles outside the centre of London, which is apparently an hour by car... and i really don't know what sort of person is going to make that journey to see her (except for us).  London has so much to offer, is she really going to be anywhere near the tops of people's list of things to do/see?  The absolute minimum time it would take is a full half day.

I think there has to be somewhere better... somewhere where she can be more visible, make more impact, and be more wow.  Rotterdam was so lucky with all their working waterways stretching right into the city...

I will maybe start a new locked topic with all the sensible suggestions from within this topic.