Where would "as is" Hotel QE2 work best ? (Serious Discussion)

[Rob Lightbody]

It needs to be a bigger city, or an area with a bigger population within range of the ship.  Think QM1 at Long Beach, for example.  This means she won't threaten local businesses.
It needs to have moderate temperatures, although i suspect too cold would be better than too hot.
It needs to "like british things".
It preferably needs to appreciate old things - shabby chic! rather than luxury=glitzy.
Preferably, it needs to have not too much "wow" that QE2 will just disappear into it all...
It doesnt necessarily need to have an amazing waterfront/port, but QE2 must be visible from land I think.
High unemployment might be useful, but this might cancel out potential profits from visitors I suppose...

It seems to me that anything at all is better than our freshly painted and re-registered QE2 just sitting at Port Rashid baking and getting dusty in the desert... so lets think of somewhere.

[Blue Bombay]

I think there are only 3 choices, somewhere in Europe and for me Southampton is still the place for her.Then you have maybe Japan the ship was well loved there.And the last choice maybe Australia but this last would be a very remote one.

Louis

[Rob Lightbody]

Yes but lets try to be much more specific now. Choose a city and a dock! Maybe we can come up with a short list. Its a free world, we could even ask politicians in the location what they think.

[MiamiCunarder]

 

  Funny Rob, I was just thinking about this myself recently! Just yesterday morning in fact, after reading the initial reports on the Capetown fiasco. I began thinking of a few places and chose Miami. Yes, I'm a little partial but there's more to it.  Miami fits the mold as a large city with a revolving door of tourists plus, and this a definite plus...there's a big vacant spot.
 It's the old port of Miami before they created Dodge Island, which is attached to the mainland and is of the last time I checked, still vacant; a large gap on the downtown bay line.
Anyway, at the moment, I happen to have a connection to the incumbant mayor of the City of Miami. All we need now are investors and a willing seller..


  This image is dated but the gap you see (the old port) is still there as you see it.
 
Ron

[Bob C.]

Here's a suggestion. Two options for Southampton in the below Google Earth screen capture. 

Option 1:  1000 ft (305m) pier built where the white rectagle is overlaid and dock QE2 there as a QM1-esque hotel, museum and conference center.

Option 2: The quay wall along that stretch of park is about 1000 ft long - Moor QE2 along the wall as a QM1-esque hotel, museum and conference center.

There is also alot of open land across from Southampton that looks available for such a project. 

[MiamiCunarder]

 
 Here is an image I plucked off Google just to give you an idea.



I was actually aiming to find an artist's depiction for a commercial development in that area which I recall seeing about 8-10 years ago.  The artist had cleverly drawn QE2 docked in that very same spot.

 Ron

[Bob C.]

Here's another possiblity.  Google earth shows this area to the east of Southampton's Eastern Docks as abondoned and, if it still is, it's roughly the same amount of area the QM1 resort occupies. Ship outline is to scale

[Bob C.]

One more - more of a wish than feasibility.  Didn't see much real estate availble up river closer to Glasgow (the "conference center of the world") and west of the city's bridges.

[MiamiCunarder]

  Here is an image off of Google Earth.  According to Google Earth's measurements, the old port (gap) measures around 1,160 ft (354m ) in length and 300 ft (90 m) in width. Bicentennial Park which is right next to the old port would make a great spot to admire her.


 Great topic, btw, Rob. Thanks again for bringing it up.
 
Ron

[Blue Bombay]

Yokohama, Japan

http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/3472

Louis

[highlander0108]

Back home.     The fitting out basin fits her fine and she'd be right next to the Titan Crane that helped build her and the other true Queens.



Or Southampton.  I would love to stay on QE2 either prior to a Cunard cruise or after one rather than staying in the Holiday Inn, but i'm biased.   

[citrail]

Yep, I'm with you on that one. QE2 would always look so right there, and what a massive draw for local tourism.
Trouble is, is there the money about to make it happen, indeed make it happen anywhere in the UK. 

[Twynkle]

Hey Rob,

Firstly - thank you for all your thoughts and suggestions.
In answer to your question - I would say very definitely dock her in Southampton - leased to perhaps someone who's already proven to be great, like Sir Richard Branson, Sir Tim Dyson, Sir Paul McCartney et al, plus others in a similar position to make the initial capital outlay.....A CONSORTIUM OF THE GREAT AND THE GOOD! (pressed caps there by mistake!))

A private concern that could use QE2 for training, education, conferences, weddings, convalescence for forces personnel, the possibilities are endless  - preferably all connected to the Maritime world.
Importantly, there is all the infra-structure in situ, good communications, easy access for tourism (airport, and inc. France), business interests,  etc -
There's be no trouble with recruiting labour, and putting her to good use will also require good-will, following good PR and great publicity. 
Queen Elizabeth 2 would look very good indeed and wouldn't she be most welcome on her home territory?
After all, others have already shown that QM can 'do it' - if she can, then so can QE2.

Having said all that - she was Clyde built - and if there is the same back-ground there to support her - then this would definitely need to be considered as well.

On another level, though
Is anyone else finding this really difficult - not least as 'isn't there still uncertainty about QE2's position?'
regarding finance, doubt's about South Africa - etc etc
and absolutely no formal public statements from anyone, anywhere......
since QE2_DXB's confident statement (end of last week)
It feels really bad - and I'm sorry.
However, her anchor is waiting, and there's the new QE2 Mile,
let's hope for better news - soon.

Rosie

PS - Hopefully she would be allowed to drop the pre-fix Hotel - after all, she is and always will be  THE QE2!

[Mr B]

Without question Highlander, where she was born.

There isn't any money in the Scottish Government Budget for sure, we need someone with not only the cash but the feelings for her; perhaps the likes of someone who understood Concorde but was scunnered by the CAA and BA.

[luzparis]

for me the QE2 need to return in Southampton or where she born in glasgow but i have a another place for her Lisbon !! a wonderful place  with a very big abandonned drydock in front of the city  a new city project propose by the famous english Architect sir Richard Rogers the architect of the scottich parliament

[highlander0108]

To generate cash flow, here's another idea and this one should be viewed as a no brainer.  How about bringing her back to NYC.  There is definitely space and I highly doubt there would be any opposition.  Put her in Pier 88/90 or refurb one of the unused piers on he Hudson, NOT Red Hook.  Or just bring her back and tie her up there temporarily and open the doors up as a hotel with zero modifications.  Ultimately, I'd rather see her in the UK, which would give me a big reason to visit more often, but Southampton and New York were her main ports of call and should have the greatest ties to the area.  Granted it would take money to move her, but why not sell the cruise for passengers and recoup some of the operating costs.  I am sure the logistics of putting passengers back on for one voyage probably are cost prohibitive, but one can only dream.  We already have a Concorde here and she'd look pretty smart alongside another icon of transportation.

Now back to the UK option and costs.  Remember that your government laid out some cash to get Queen Mary going again during the depression and many were put back to work throughout the UK with that move.  Maybe history can be repeated.  Think of this as a stimulous package for local economies if she were brought back home.  Local labor would be needed to prepare the pier, perhaps even adding support buildings such as a museum, locals would be needed to staff the hotel operations.  And then there is the tourist draw potential to stimulate the local economy as well.  Perhaps Prince Charles can get her designated an historic site.  

Ken

[Bob C.]

Great idea Ken but I would recommend mooring her bow first (as she always did) so that her "Port Vila" would be essentially hidden from the Manhattan public eye.

[Twynkle]

After a few moments of research - (and Before the Olympics 2012
when Sailing events at Weymouth will be down the road from Soton)

UK  - 2010
Hayling Island Laser International Regatta 2010
Travel Trade 2010 - Birmingham
Best of Britain and Ireland  2010 - London
Rally of GB 2010 - Cardiff
together with all the annual sporting fixtures,
Turn of the decade stuff,
Royal Events
together with lots of Rock and other concerts, gigs, festivals....
Couldn't all involved with these add a 'stay aboard QE2' to their itineraries?

 - this is to English Heritage, / Historic Scotland btw
If in the UK,  - Please could QE2 become the first Grade One Listed Liner-Building?
No need to worry about her stern Bob C - as you mentioned before, S'hampton's there already!

[highlander0108]

for me the QE2 need to return in Southampton or where she born in glasgow but i have a another place for her Lisbon !! a wonderful place  with a very big abandonned drydock in front of the city  a new city project propose by the famous english Architect sir Richard Rogers the architect of the scottich parliament

Sir Richard Rogers had absolutely nothing to do with the Scottish Parliament Building in Edinburgh.  Catalonian Architect Enric Miralles, with local architect RMJM, were responsible for a very radically different building.  I visited the building as part of my Farewell to UK trip last year.  Interestingly, there is a QE2 connection here.  RMJM designed the QE3 building in Glasgow, which got its inspiration from the original funnel design of QE2.  Also, I see subtle references to QE2 in the Parliament building.  I see QE2 on the slipway from this anglle in the first pic and the funnel in the second pic. Rob posted pics on the QE3 building in a separate post awhile back.


With their obvious QE2 enthusiasm, they would be a great local firm needed to redevelop the ship properly.

Ken

[luzparis]

sorry for the mistake he made a wales parliament !! 

[billy]

Hi All,

One place, the land of her birth. I'm PROUD to be Scottish and I'm PROUD that the QE2 was built 15 miles from my birthplace. Bring her back home where she belongs, Greenock, Glasgow or Clydebank, anywhere as long as she's back on the Clyde. USA, no. They could'nt even look after her older sister QE and although the QM looks ok where she is, they ripped her engines out for goodness sake and whatever else, so USA thank you but no thank you. You would be better trying to save the United States from destruction. Austrailia and Japan are too far away for people to visit her. I would settle for her to be brought back anywhere in the UK as long as we get her away from Dubai asap, before she is damaged any further with the weather etc.

[Rob Lightbody]

This has turned into a fascinating discussion!

I think Miami might work well, I would never have thought of that one!  Also like the idea of New York and Yokohama.

[Blue Bombay]

Check this chart from Yokohama the blue arrow is where QE2 normally docks.This chart is hanging on my living room wall.

Louis

[Bob C.]

How about Halifax?  Lots of maritime, White Star (Titanic) and Cunard history there.  While it's not UK, it certainly has a direct link to her maritime and CUNARD heritage!

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

Excellent idea, Bob! Halifax is attractive to ship lovers for a whole series of unrelated reasons.

The principal one is that Halifax has almost all of the Titanic graves, and is full of White Star / Titanic history, which brings huge numbers of visitors on an ongoing basis.

In addition, Halifax has a beautiful maritime museum, where I could have spent many more happy hours...

In addition, Halifax has one of the best natural harbours of North America... and the harbour is huge, so space for QE2 should not be a problem...

It is also the original home of the whole of Cunard, as Samuel Cunard came from there and built up a significant shipping industry before he went to Scotland and founded Cunard Lines.

Read the Steam Lion by John G Langley :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Steam-Lion-Biography-Samuel-Cunard/dp/1883283507/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253317470&sr=8-1

... which would be good in the QE2 shop too    .

The Cunard Steamship Society is based in Halifax :

http://cunardsteamshipsociety.com/

Here are some photos from our visit to Halifax this time last year... QE2's final call to a city that must be considered her third home port, after Southampton and New York...

http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=55206992%40N00&q=qe2+halifax&m=text

It could well be an excellent choice!

[Twynkle]

Interesting  - in the light of 'Where would QE2 work best?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cruise-wars-southampton-aims-to-sink-liverpool-hopes-1789789.html

I wonder - Has anyone seriously thought about Liverpool?
Please could you try!!
It has all the infra-structure etc equalling that of Southampton.
Importantly too - it's just experienced being the European City of Culture - there are plenty of people there that could make it work for QE2.
And it has the huge new Echo Arena - situated where ships dock

 QE2 could offer the City an enormous amount in relation to Cunard,  the history of the Port as well as the strong history of ocean going liners and not least, the Shipping industry itself - from a multitude of perspectives
The Liverpudlians would welcome her, make good use of her - and QE2 would love the sense of Liverpudlian humour - she was born with that.


To QE2_DXB and all involved at Nakheel -- this is a heartfelt plea for another very sensible idea!

http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/10/03/a-warm-welcome-

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/10/04/thousands-see-qe2-for-a-final-sail-away-from-liverpool-s-pier-head-100252-21962876/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAHyJU266N0

[pjswansea]

Some of the Southampton ideas are interesting but have some major problems (mainly cash based).  Dredging the area in front of Mayflower Park would be too prohibitive - especially as there is still a load of wreckage from the old Royal Pier.

The idea to use the other side of the Itchen is also bad as this side of Southampton is primarily residential and would not be able to support such an attraction.

I support either Southampton or Sydney for the QE2 (I think New York should have the SS United States).

For Southampton why not moor the QE2 on the Western Docks by Mayflower Park - the nearby warehouses could be demolished and so could the nearby Holiday Inn.

The Ship could be permanenly moored there, and the dockland and Mayflower park could be redeveloped. The site of the former Holiday Inn could be converted to an access way and parking.  Also with Carnival (Cunard) planning a new office near the Town Quay the QE2 could take on a role as a hotel/mooring facility as the Queen Mary does in Long Beach, CA.

I've attached some images below to show this:

The Holiday Inn (to be demolished). Holiday Inn could be offered a concession for an area of the ship that could be converted to suit their format and some public rooms could be given to them for conferencing etc.

 

This next image shows a view from the Town Quay.  You can see the remains of the Royal Pier, Mayflower Park, the potential mooring area (and the QV in the background).


Here's a classic image of the RMS Windsor Castle in the same place:


And the old Saxonia Class Cunarders laid-up here:


Here's a map to show the location:





As for Sydney - I love the photos of the QE2 moored by the opera house at night; they're fantastic!  She'd certainly be a big draw there!

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

In Southampton, what site is being planned for Saga Rose?
Presumably, her placement is a done deal now, so that particular site would not be available for QE2.

Could Southampton support two classic liners serving as hotels / conference centres, etc.?

[Rob Lightbody]

What we need to focus on in this topic is Head over heart - i.e. realistic solutions for the ship, even if its somewhere you can't visit, for instance.

We're also not talking about a permanent solution, or not necessarily at least.  the engines are running, she's registered as a passenger ship, and she can go to place to place.  So this is us trying to think of the first place, instead of Cape Town.

Rosie - for Liverpool - which specific dock are you proposing?  It would need to not impede the profit-making new cruise terminal there.    I would think also, that with Liverpool's attractive waterfront/skyline etc, a permanent large ship may not go down well with everybody - e.g. people more interested in the city/architecture than ships...

[pjswansea]

I do not believe that the QE2 has a cruising future ahead of her - her age and future regulation will mean that her best chance is as a static vessel.

I believe that Southampton, with a role like the Queen Mary is a positive option for her:
http://www.carnival.com/cms/FAQs/Cruise_Ship_Terminals__Parking__Directions__LONG_BEACH_CRUISE_TERMINAL.aspx

However, she needs her engines and propulsion preserved.  Some utilities etc. will have to be connected to the vessel, but redundant ships systems should not be removed - simply mothballed if required at a later date.  After all in that case the vessel can be lent to other ports across the world for periods of time.

If the credit crunch had not hit, the QE2 would probably have been in the dry dock being gutted for a stationary role.

Although many of us want her to be cruising still - we have to accept the cold, hard truth- it's not possible.  Give her a suitable permanent home, and allow the possibility of her becoming reactivated for the necessary dry-dockings, or moving to another port for a loan.

Many may think I am being churlish about our beloved ship, but I feel that this is the best option for her long-term survival.

[Rob Lightbody]

In case you misunderstood me - I agree she will never cruise again.  However, she can go places under her own power, as Nakheel have just proven by re-certifying her for a period through 2010 and beyond.  This is a realistic way to deploy her for the next few years at least, perhaps even beyond that.

She can't be compared with any ship that has gone before her because of her unique "power station" powerplant, still in operation.

I don't want to take this off-topic, but there are only 2 options with her hotel role - a COMPLETE gutting and re-creation as a hotel OR what they're doing now - a single engine running for power, safety systems etc, which means "nothing needs messed with".  As soon as things are messed with, there's a big, very expensive problem to deal with - including asbestos on all passenger decks, plumbing, air-conditioning, fire systems - EVERYTHING.

What they're doing now, what they were trying to do with Cape Town - is the right thing for the ship, for now.  She just needs a new sensible location - NOW.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

We're also not talking about a permanent solution, or not necessarily at least.  the engines are running, she's registered as a passenger ship, and she can go to place to place.  So this is us trying to think of the first place, instead of Cape Town.

This means going from place to place without passengers, as she would have done for Cape Town (i.e. no cruising), but could then re-open, in a series of places, where she could work as she did before when under stationary charter.

This means, we already know that Yokohama and Osaka would be suitable, unless conditions have changed in those ports since QE2 was there under charter.

For me, and for the next few years at least, while she is registered in Vanuatu, this would be a solution preferable to a permanent berth, as she would remain seaworthy, could use her engines at sea from time to time, and could stay a ship, producing her own power, while stationary. Once she is berthed somewhere permanently, she would of course, be at least partially disabled and, as Rob says in a newer message, many other problems would need to be tackled before she can be re-opened after her "facelift"...

[Jem]

I think she should carry on sailing to various ports around the world and being used as a hotel. I believe this is the best option for her, as many of you do. As Rob says making her static will cost a fortune. While her engines remain in good condition and her hull sound, this seems the best way for her to make money, in this down turn we are having. With her engines, she still has a heart

[Bob C.]

Hmm.  A traveling Queen Mary-like attraction.  In other words a reverse ocean liner concept where instead of short port calls to change out passengers that enjoy days to months at sea, the passengers and parties occur over extended port calls (several months to possibly a few years) and the at-sea time is passengerless and only to change ports. 

Had not thought of it in that light.  Will need to put more brain cells behind this.

[RobertQM2]

What we need to focus on in this topic is Head over heart - i.e. realistic solutions for the ship......

My opinion too. One has always to keep a close eye on realistic dimensions (especially visitor figures / costs to run the static vessel) I think that as a hotel etc. it just can survive in an area with a huge drawing potential. So for example to put it to her original berth place is a fancy idea for historians but would draw just a few thousands in the first few months (years) and then the visitor stream will thin out. And our discussion has to start from new.

It also is a fact if you place it somewhere out of the US most of the internal electrical supply system has to be changed from 110Volt and 60 cycles to 230V /50cyc. Which is an additional factor. And if it is changed it'll hardly be pulled to the US and changed again.

Both factors are reasons to place her somewhere in an US port. As SFO is my favorite city over there, it can be placed along pier 49. Having a lobster and then visiting her and the other museum vessels is something thousands of tourists are doing every day year in year out. And the Japanese people who love her quite much have it near by. By the way, just the japanese tourists in SFO will outnumber all visitor in any UK port for years to come.
I'm looking forward to your answers.
The engineer.

[Twynkle]

Rob
About 'which Dock in Liverpool?'
To be honest, others will be much more knowledgeable about the current situation!

Cammell Laird's in Birkenhead is opposite the Cunard Building, across the well dredged River Mersey -
Grand Views all round for everyone!
They have a large wet basin - HMS Ark Royal was launched from there etc etc
If I were Nakheel, I'd think it well worth having a reccie round those parts - Definitely.


http://www.oceanlinermuseum.co.uk/Cammell%20Laird%20Shipbuilders%20to%20the%20World.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7732742.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cammell_Laird

Rosie

[Bob C.]

Diving into the "reverse ocean liner" concept from my last post consider the following:

QE2 - Coming to a port near you. 

Experience the the glory days of the Golden Age of TransAtlantic Travel.

Dine in elegance and enjoy 5-star cuisine.

Give your business, family or other gathering an historic flavor onboard the last of the classic transAtlantic liners


Is there a market for this?  I would think so if not just for the novelty for 3-5 years.  Then all the ports mentioned so far could be included.  The historic transAtlantic maritime ports of Halifax, Boston, New York, Southampton, Liverpool, Cobh, Le Harve, Cherbourg, Hamburg, etc.  and other ports such as San Francisco, Miami, Ft Lauderdale, Yokohama, Sidney, etc. could be included as well.  QE2 remains intact, alive and continues to make history.

There would be little to no conversion needed (QE2 is ready to do this in Capetown), relatively little support infrastructure (pier construction, parking, etc) as there would as a QE2 museum/conference center and with pierside convenience I would think the hotel (staterooms) would be over 90% occupancy for the extended lenght of stay.  Docking and other fees may be troublesome but perhaps a deal could be worked out with the host port. 

Local tourism would flourish with the draw of the QE2, Nakheel could turn a profit on this and local economies would enjoy the added revenue as was to be in Capetown.

I'm not a businessman but would think this concept may be feasible.  Thoughts?



   

[Jem]

Rob C,
I think this idea could really work. The Queen Mary to me lost her soul once her engines were removed and she became lifeless.
With QE2, she would still be a living breathing vessel, sounds daft but she'd still be alive
Like you I'm no businessman but she's just had this refit costing more money so way not put her back into service as a hotel. Come on Nakeel, start earning rather than losing!

[citrail]

As we've seen in ports across the world, QE2 always draws a large crowd, even when she's only passing by. The majority of these people will never have travelled on her. With security being as tight as it was there was no chance for some of these people to ever get aboard, I'm certain many people would be willing to pay simply for the chance to go onboard and have a look round, the same as we do on Concorde today!

[pjswansea]

There is one important factor here we've all overlooked - cost.

The QE2 costs to keep her engines and systems running - in most cases it would be cheaper to connect her to the mains supply - also there are issues such as brown water and sewerage - I can't see any port being happy with this as a long to medium term factor.

I still advocate a system similar to the SS Rotterdam V - However, I advocate the engines and systems being mothballed where and when the ship can be connected to land services - If she were to move port she can be brought back to service in a short period of time and relocated if and when required.

Out of interest, does Nakheel/Dubai have any interests in the London Olympics - I could see her doing extremely well there!

[Mike White]

Admittedly I'm biased, being from Southampton. But this is such a logical place to berth her. For a start the name is still on the stern although not painted at present. Plus, Southampton is considering a major overall of it's waterfront and what would be better to have her be a part of that development? The development is also to accommodate a bigger and better annual boat show which is guaranteed until 2020. QE2 would be the ultimate backdrop to such a huge event (I think it's the biggest boat show in the world). Speaking to local MPs would be a great way to start the ball rolling.

[omah1975]

If Nakheel got their act together they could earn some money by letting people stay on the QE2 for the forthcoming Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, they could make £1 million by letting 1,000 people stay on her for 3 nights at £1,000 per person

[Rob Lightbody]

If Nakheel got their act together they could earn some money by letting people stay on the QE2 for the forthcoming Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, they could make £1 million by letting 1,000 people stay on her for 3 nights at £1,000 per person

Good idea, but what temperature would it be?  If anything over 30, I think QE2 could be uncomfortably stuffy inside...

[QE2 DXB]

The temperature around the AD Grand Prix would be above 30 during the day.

Also, there is limited opportunity to berth her in Abu Dhabi due to draft constraints in any worthwhile location apart from the main commercial port which is not viable as an accomodation location given the lack of supporting infrastructure e.g. sewage, water etc.

Yas Island (the new island created for the event) does not have sufficient depth of water to bring her anywhere close.

QE2DXB

[omah1975]

Could the air conditioning not be restarted on the ship? How long does it take to get from where the QE2 is to where the Grand Prix is being held? I was thinking the ship could stay where it was.

[QE2 DXB]

The air conditioning is already running

It is a 1.5 hour drive from Port Rashid to Yas Island, assuming traffic is OK

[Blue Bombay]

Could the air conditioning not be restarted on the ship?

The air conditioning from the ship never worked 100% and with temperature over 30 day in day out the ship will never cool down.

Louis

[usqe2fan]

I would advocate Southhampton, Sydney Australia, and Yokohama Japan in that order.  Details for each of these ports would need to be worked out, but I believe she could be successful in any of them.

New York does not seem to care about shipping much anymore, Halifax is too cold in the Winter, the river Clyde has not been dredged in years, and Miami, aside from the occasional Hurricane, is where Carnival is headquartered and would never fly because of that fact.

I would suggest putting a credible plan together for the three suggested ports

[Twynkle]

Hi usqe2fan
It would be interesting to know why you left Merseyside off your list?
There are many appropriate things about this area that would fulfill all the conditions that QE2 will be needing.
Not least a workforce that would be ready and willing to manage and provide for her, both as a ship and as hotel.
QE2 and her predecessors have been staunch Liverpudlians!
Thanks
Rosie

[Blue Bombay]

It would be interesting to know why you left Merseyside off your list?
There are many appropriate things about this area that would fulfill all the conditions that QE2 will be needing.

Yes Rosie that is true but i think you would only attract QE2 lovers then and what the ship needs is more than that.That is why i say Yokohama is still the best place for her.

Louis

[Rob Lightbody]

Just as a FYI - the clyde has had some pretty darn big ships up it quite recently - going a long way past John Browns too... i don't think the dredging/erskine bridge are the reasons for her not returning to the Clyde.

Rosie - have you identified a suitable merseyside berth for her?

Agree about Miami-Carnival problem - Carnival, from everything I heard, wanted rid of QE2 ASAP... i'm sure the last thing they want is her turning up on their doorstep like an unwanted waiff (Glasgow term I think!).

Re: the aircon - I hate to say negative things about "our" ship but it was just never very good!  I had it confirmed from someone in the know, that even when the ship was brand new, it wouldn't have coped with the temperatures in Dubai or that region in general...  I think its never been turned off since arrival in Dubai... i believe its also being heavily assisted by shoreside AC units.

[Rob Lightbody]

Oh and I have one more location to add to the possible list, and here's why.

Vancouver

• They love Britain and the royals, and I believe will "know of" QE2
• They have a lovely big harbour
• The West-Coast location makes her accessbile from various locations including Seattle
• It would be "handy" for Pacific rim cities and countries, where the ship is popular, such as Yokohama !
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver
• She would look amazing there.

[Rob Lightbody]

they could make £1 million by letting 1,000 people stay on her for 3 nights at £1,000 per person

There's no way they could charge this!  unless it included lots of other stuff for free ...  Maybe they could charge a couple of hundred people that, in the very nicest staterooms, but the other staterooms would have to go for a lot less I think!!

[Blue Bombay]

Here is shots from the Port of Yokohama.She looks lovely and always very welcomed.

http://www.city.yokohama.jp/me/port/cruise/2007/0306/

Louis

[Twynkle]

Rob
Would this be of any help?
http://www.clbh.co.uk/
I've a good mind to make enquiries, on behalf of QE2 herself! 
However, as there are more knowledgeable people around these parts,
they might ask more appropriate questions!

As an 'immediate' and short-term measure
Do you think that it really might be possible for QE2 to spend time in 'each place' around the globe?
In this way, there would be no need to worry about climate.
it would provide an equal opportunity for everyone to see her, stay aboard - and most importantly, for those who couldn't afford it, arrangements could be made for Day Visitors to see the public rooms, the Heritage Trail - Lunch in the Lido!
(If this were the case, the ECR, SCR Engines and Bridge etc would obviously still need to remain out of bounds...
Cheers - the nou
Rosie

[Rob Lightbody]

Rob
Would this be of any help?
http://www.clbh.co.uk/
I've a good mind to make enquiries, on behalf of QE2 herself!  

Its a free world Rosie, go for your life!  Its a very simple question - "do you have somewhere suitable to berth the greatest ocean liner in the world for a while?"

As an 'immediate' and short-term measure
Do you think that it really might be possible for QE2 to spend time in 'each place' around the globe?
In this way, there would be no need to worry about climate.

Yes, thats what this thread is meant to be discussing.  Only this.  The medium and long term can wait, there's a "problem" to solve RIGHT NOW.

[pjswansea]

Agree about Miami-Carnival problem - Carnival, from everything I heard, wanted rid of QE2 ASAP... i'm sure the last thing they want is her turning up on their doorstep like an unwanted waiff (Glasgow term I think!).

Just because they wanted rid of her is no reason to say that Carnival would not be interested in her as a floating attraction linked to their vessels.

The best example is Carnival's decision to build a new cruise terminal next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach.  If someone else is prepared to run the ship next to a Carnival dock it would be beneficial for both parties.

This is why I advocate somewhere like Southampton - remember P&O and Cunard Cruises depart from Southampton - and Carnival are considering a new cruise port /hq there.  QE2 could be a static attraction (hotel/museum/[flats?]) and also serve as a hotel for Cunard/P&O passengers, as well as an embarkation point?

Carnival are well known for getting rid of older, and smaller tonnage - but aren't alone in doing this and I am sure the prestigious QE2 would be an excellent draw for them

[mrkpnh (Malcolm K)]

The air conditioning from the ship never worked 100%

Very true. But towards the end of her life it got far worse

[mrkpnh (Malcolm K)]

The best example is Carnival's decision to build a new cruise terminal next to the Queen Mary in Long Beach.  If someone else is prepared to run the ship next to a Carnival dock it would be beneficial for both parties.

And on her final world Cruise she went to Long Beach. The QM was only a short taxi ride away. A lot of people from the QE2 went to see the QM. Cunard didn't run a tour to see her though; they didn't even make mention in the Daily Programme that one of the QE2's great predecessors was also in that port.

I can't see Carnival seeing the QE2 as anything other than a dangerous liability

[Rob Lightbody]

Very true. But towards the end of her life it got far worse

I'm led to believe that its been *properly* overhauled and repaired since... something that's probably much easier with her being out of service and not full of passengers!  It may be working better now than it has done for a long time... but I think that maybe isn't saying much...

[mrkpnh (Malcolm K)]

There was a rumour on the WC that her airconditioning was "keel cooled" and needed her to be travelling at speed for the A/C to be effective. This was also cited as the reason why the A/C was less effective in the tropics than the North Atlantic (not something that I noticed). If this is the case then her onboard A/c must be almost totally ineffective now that she's static and in hot water!

[MrT]

Well I thought the QE2's aircon wasn't too bad!  I was on her in the med last August when it was pretty hot and we were fine, in fact we had a whale of a time...

For me they keep QM2 a bit warm, but also bear in mind some of the "more senior/less active" clientele like life a bit warmer than us young ones...

Heavens, who cares, just let's get the old gal moving again...

Alex.

[highlander0108]

There was a rumour on the WC that her airconditioning was "keel cooled" and needed her to be travelling at speed for the A/C to be effective. This was also cited as the reason why the A/C was less effective in the tropics than the North Atlantic (not something that I noticed). If this is the case then her onboard A/c must be almost totally ineffective now that she's static and in hot water!

Hearing that comment, i would guess that the AC systems use the sea water for cooling, extracting the cooling out of the water in the "heat pump" process.  With much warmer water of Dubai, the BTU's of coolin available is not as great as they would be in say.....CYLDEBANK!  The ship does not have to be moving, just pumping water.  Perhaps some of our resident QE2 engineers can weigh in on the equipment used onboard.  In October, my 5 deck cabin AC worked perfectly.  the cabin got quite warm with it turned off, as the cabin steward seemed to do every day.  I think it was due to our proximity to the engine room below.  I recall reading that the AC systems have been upgraded over time and that a cargo hold was converted to house the additional AC equipment; perhaps it was the car area.

Ken

[Jem]

Yes, thats what this thread is meant to be discussing.  Only this.  The medium and long term can wait, there's a "problem" to solve RIGHT NOW.

Rob, I think the only solution 'right now' is for her to visit various ports around the world. She stays in port until the revenue starts to drop and off she goes to her next 'money making' event. Right now she's sitting there not earning her present owners a penny and draining their cash! Just get her out of that heat and earning her keep! Nakeel need to do a big PR event announcing she's coming. Maybe show clips of her in her element, crossing the Atlantic. Some thing  like 'Live the dream, come onboard and experience the ultimate in true liner luxury.'

Cheers.

[Bob C.]

Rob, I think the only solution 'right now' is for her to visit various ports around the world.

Agree, and to make her more appealing, perhaps Nakheel could make good on their original promise to return her to her original "space age" decor (e.g. red, white and blue tones throughout the ship, spiral staircase in the Double Room, etc.)  Then she would truly be a piece of history and a bigger draw than just another tired crusie ship.  They could include displays and themes on:

British shipbuilding specifically John Brown
Fauklands and QE2's role
QE2's rescues at sea
Royals and celelbrities on QE2
86 refit
Trans-Atlantic/Cunard History
Trans-Atlantic Heyday - Immagrants, Titanic, Olympic, Maury, Lucy, QM, QE, plus other "ia's", "ic's" and lines.

Stay aboard in 1st Class or experience a 5 Deck cabin - perhaps redo a few as comemorations of "steerage" (view only) . 
Merchandising will be a money maker as will concessions.

The potential topics and possibilities are virtually unlimited.

Will it make money?  Depends on the business plan but it will certainly make more than sitting empty and idle in Dubai.

As a model comparison, the Hotel Del Coronado here in San Diego (http://www.hoteldel.com) has a lot of this sort of nostalgai coursing throughout it's floors.  It was built in 1888 with small rooms when compared to other modern luxury hotels in the area and has had several changes made over the years (restaurant and entertainment expansion/modernization, a few upgraded luxury rooms added, etc.) just as QE2 has but "Hotel Del", as it is referred to locally, remains essentially the way it looked in 1888 (just as QE2 does from 1969) and thrives today on it's location, history, nostalgia and 5 star service.

QE2 can have any location Nakheel wants because she can be easliy moved and her history, nostalgia and service can travel with her. 

Seems viable to me.

[Bob C.]

Just thought of this too.  Museums have exhibit road shows where the displays travel to locations for months to years.  Combine the museum exhibit road show and Hotel del concepts and I think you have a winning (and profitable) future for QE2!

[MiamiCunarder]

  Hmm..  Me still thinks Miami would make a suitable home. 


  Ron

[LegendOfTheSeas]

QE2 and her predecessors have been staunch Liverpudlians!

Not wishing to start a Liverpool vs Southampton flame war but 'QE2 a staunch Liverpudlian'? I don't think so! Her homeport for best part of 40 years was Southampton and 'Southampton' was the port of registry on her stern until recently replaced by Port Vila. Southampton, not Liverpool.
The previous Queens had Liverpool on their sterns, but never visited there, being based in Southampton throughout their lives (apart from during WW2).

[flagship]

But QE2 is a child of Liverpool as she was designed in the Cunard Building in the Pierhead and all the major decisions about her design and construction were made in Liverpool. So, Clydeside, Southampton and Liverpool can all claim her as their own in some way.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

But QE2 is a child of Liverpool as she was designed in the Cunard Building in the Pierhead and all the major decisions about her design and construction were made in Liverpool. So, Clydeside, Southampton and Liverpool can all claim her as their own in some way.

I do feel that Bremerhaven has to be added to this list -- not because it has in any way entered the fray to offer her a home, but because QE2 owes much of her past twenty years to that amazing refit, of which the people of Bremerhaven were (and quite possibly still are) so proud...

... but I don't want to take this thread off topic either... 

[Scott Ebersold]

Just last weekend I was looking out a window at the old superliner piers - basically empty except the sole (unattractive) Carnival Triumph.  And I thought of how excited I used to get seeing QE2 there.   Tied up right next door to the superliner piers is the USS Intrepid with none other than Concorde on her decks.  There is already a "military maritime museum" tied up to the piers with a whole food and beverage complex.  All they'd need to do is tie QE2 up next door and it would round out the experience (and in my opinion greatly improve the experience).  People could stay in QE2 visiting NYC with amazing views of the mid-town skyline before embarking on other journeys or for conventions ... or just as a hotel.

That said, since Southampton and NYC were her original main ports, and Miami a second home in cruising season,  they all sound like sound options.

[citrail]

I'd have to agree, New York purely because of vistor numbers and other local attractions. I'd love to see her come home to anywhere in the UK but somehow I don't think we'd have market to sustain her.

[Bob C.]

I'd have to agree, New York purely because of vistor numbers and other local attractions. I'd love to see her come home to anywhere in the UK but somehow I don't think we'd have market to sustain her.

How about opening it up to competition?  Cruise QE2 around to potential ports (short list) on a "farewell tour", per the plan in my above posts, with the intent and full disclosure that the ports are competing to win her as a permanent attraction.

Those withthe best sustained turn out wins.  This plan makes Nakheel money while "testing the waters" for the best place to permanently berth her. 

[sotonsean]

How long ago were you in Southampton?

The Carnival HQ is already built and is on West Quay Road further along from the Holiday Inn and not at Town Quay as you stated.

Who is going to pay Intercontinental Hotels Group the owners of Holiday Inn to move to a new location.

Even if a pier was built sticking out from Mayflower Park this would seriously hinder the navigational channel leading upto the Western Docks plus berth 101 is the middle swinging ground so not a possibility!

Also you have to take into consideration that Mayflower Park hosts the annual Southampton Boat Show and this land is committed to this every year, in fact a 5 year contract has just been renewed with the show's organisers.

Also the 'warehouses you mention' at berths 101/102 is the current 'City Cruise Terminal' used by Royal Caribbean Cruises, Celebrity Cruises, Fred Olsen Cruises, Saga Cruises so again not a possible!

The site at Woolston as you state is largely residential as that is where I live, alot of dredging would have to be undertaken to bring her alongside but that will never happen as this land has been sold for development.

Picture shows Queen Victoria alongside the City Cruise Terminal at berth 101 on 22nd April 2008 with QE2 further down the quay in refit at berth 105

[Rob Lightbody]

Sean,

Fascinating reply.

I don't know S'ton well at all... are we really saying there is nowhere for her to safely go (soon) ?  If so we should count it out.  Whats next most likely on the list?  I wanted this thread to be realistic options, so if s'ton is a no-go, lets work out what is!

And, again, we're talking somewhere she could go now - short term, not long term.  Somewhere needing zero alterations.

[nigelrob]

Hi usqe2fan
It would be interesting to know why you left Merseyside off your list?
There are many appropriate things about this area that would fulfill all the conditions that QE2 will be needing.
Not least a workforce that would be ready and willing to manage and provide for her, both as a ship and as hotel.
QE2 and her predecessors have been staunch Liverpudlians!
Thanks
Rosie

 I agree Liverpool should be included this was Cunards home until they moved to Southampton. The only ports that should be considered should be Liverpool, Southampton and the Clyde she is British built and like the old QM should have never have left the UK but money always wins. The big U was really built as a stand by troop ship as the American navy wanted something similar to the QE1 and QM1 that could carry lots of troops or be used as a hospital ship..

[mickey g]

for me the QE2 need to return in Southampton or where she born in glasgow but i have a another place for her Lisbon !! a wonderful place  with a very big abandonned drydock in front of the city  a new city project propose by the famous english Architect sir Richard Rogers the architect of the scottich parliament

[Rob Lightbody]

Out of curiosity, and wanting to make this topic more "real", I've been putting some feelers out, and I believe that my Vancouver proposal makes it onto the shortlist for viable solutions ... it sounds like they would welcome her with open arms.

[Chris]

Fantastic Rob! Perhaps it's a good time for you send some details to QE2_DBX?

[Queet-two]

I wonder has anyone approached the world's greatest restorer of beautiful vehicles, James Sherwood of the Orient Express.  The UK train often acted as boat train to the QE2 (and I believe still does for other cruise ships).
Against all the odds and at amazing expense he restored the UK trains (plus the Royal Scotsman) and the European one.  And has revived a number of hotels too including Venice's Hotel Cipriani.
This is what Wikipedia says:  "Orient-Express Hotels Ltd  is a hotel and leisure company that operates high end hotels, cruise and train services around the world. As of 2008 it owns or partly owns more than 40 individual deluxe hotels, three restaurants, six tourist trains and two river cruise businesses in more than 25 countries world-wide."
Our lovely lady is a bigger prospect, but she could fit well into their portfolio as a tourist/museum/ restaurant concept with hotel facilities with price points from affordable five deck to the top end suites.  Yes I'd love S'ton or L'pool or Glasgow, or roving ambassador but anywhere would do.  She just needs a rich sugar daddy.

Pat
PS  I've posted onto <QE2 Dubai Concept Models> as well
http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,454.msg12122.html#msg12122

[Twynkle]

Hey Rob!

It's good to know that there is a short list   and a degree of curiosity might be interesting here!

If it turns out that Vancouver is the selected place for the mid-term, then please could we make a plea for her to do a slow twirl round the UK first?

Yes - I know that the UK ain't on the way to Vancouver from Dubai - or is it?  And Vancouver isn't on any of the World Cruise routes etc etc     (btw - I'm still waiting to hear about other enquiries I made some time ago, there's no news yet...)
Rosie
 

[Rob Lightbody]

With the news breaking (http://bit.ly/3rQVYd) that QE2 may never return to Dubai, her Final Destination remains undecided.  That makes this topic all the more important.

The Cape Town move may yet go ahead, but has only ever been stated as being temporary.  So the question is - where realistically - is ready and willing for her now (if cape town falls through) and where is ready for her in the longer term...

My latest plan?  Move her to Edinburgh, Scotland - while at the same time relocating the Royal Yacht Britannia to both ships birthplace to Clydebank.

[Twynkle]

Hey Rob!

My latest plan?  Move her to Edinburgh, Scotland - while at the same time relocating the Royal Yacht Britannia to both ships birthplace to Clydebank.

That's such a very good idea!

If not alongside, QE2 could (easily?) be layed-up in the Firth of Forth!
 - Visited by people from other passenger ships, from Edinburgh, Greenock, Invergordon, Newcastle upon Tyne  and ....
   not forgetting the entire population of the British Isles and the rest of the world.
 - Cunard would be able to add her to the shore excursion visiting list
 -There'd be plenty of people who would act as in-house QE2 Guides etc etc
 - QE2 for Hogmanay: The Maiden Forum Party!

(And when the time comes for giving consideration to her being 'at rest',
I understand that she could fit into the dry dock at Inch Green, on The Clyde).

(Curiously, Rob - I was thinking exactly the same thing at almost exactly the same time!    )
Link to Forth Ports
http://www.forthports.co.uk/ports/index.jsp
This is a link to an article in The Observer 2008...
http://jackiekemp.com/business-and-media/74-last-ditch-battle-for-the-future-of-edinburghs-historic-waterfront

[LegendOfTheSeas]

While I am from the South Coast and would love to see her back home in Southampton, frankly, at the moment, I would be happy to see her anywhere in the UK - don't care where: Southampton, Clydebank, wherever, as long as she was back in her home country. We would be happier and - if ships have souls, like the old sailors claim they do - so would QE2 herself.

[highlander0108]

Bring her back to Scotland! I know that Clydebank is a long shot, but there are so many reasons why having a local connection is better suited to the long term viability of keeping the ship as a hotel/landmark/national treasure.  There are links on my blog of the various Clydebank development projects either ongoing or in the works.  Can you think of a better thing to have located on the Clyde to draw tourists to the area?

http://qe2-prideoftheclyde.blogspot.com/

I was awestruck of the beauty of the Clyde when I first visited the area last year.  She could be tied up in Greenock for that matter for the time being and that would be a major draw to the area.  I could see excursion boats traveling from Glasgow to visit her.  Of course Rob's idea works too at the Leith docks, but I suspect some major harbor work would be in order to have her tied up alongside a pier for easy access.

Now for something completely different...Now brace yourselves to be thorougly upset after reading what follows.  The other night I was filing ship pictures I had gathered and one that I saved due to the distinctive added stern appendages caught my eye.  It was the Athena.  A little Google search was in order. This ship is actually quite famous as she is the Stockholm of Andrea Doria fame.  She had a 150 million US dollar refurbishment on a ship that is even older than QE2!  If this amount of money can be done on much less famous ship, which required a MAJOR rework, it is not out of the question that this could not have been done to bring QE2 up to SOLAS standards.  So....if we can't find a port, find a buyer to fix her up and figure out how to get those clauses voided from Cunard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Athena
http://www.classicintcruises.com/athena.htm

[junglejames]

Ignoring possible clauses in the contract, it is very plausible that she could go to sea again as a passenger liner.
Ships can always be fixed, and fixed again!
Yes work would need to be done to her. The plumbing and AC would need major work, as this is in a bad state. Floods and leaks were not uncommon in her final year. Also works to bring her in line with SOLAS.

Asbestos is mentioned as something to throw a spanner in the works.
This would be a problem, but not one that couldnt be overcome.
Also, does anyone know for sure how much asbestos she has? She has had internal refits before, and it doesnt seem to have caused problems.

The problem is, the cost of a refit would probably be a lot more now, as she has been laid up for over a year. More work may well need to be done.
Does anybody know what state she is in internally? Ive heard its not good.

So, from a business point of view, the cost of any refit now to bring her back into service may be prohibitive.

Then we have to look at the possible clause in the contract.

As for sailing her around the world to have her as a temporary attraction in numerous ports, is this really cost effective?
Where is the money coming from to move her from A to B? You are seriously underestimating how much she costs to get moving.
So you make a tiny bit of money in Sydney, then you burn 20 times that amount in getting her to Yokohama.
Make a tiny bit more money, then burn 30 times that amount to get her across the Pacific to LA.

I can see business men laughing right now.
Remember carrying fare paying passengers on these runs probably cannot happen.

One return trip to Cape Town is one thing, but taking her all around the world is another.

So unfortunately we are probably looking at a permanent home for her to become a floating hotel, conference centre, restaurant, night club, bar, wedding venue etc etc.

My prefered destinations- Southampton and Clydebank, followed by Leith, although I admit Vancouver sounds like a nice idea, as does Sydney, but both are too far away for me to comprehend!!

To me she should be permanently moored alongside the Queen Elizabeth II terminal. Right at the head of the docks, and the first thing arriving ships would see. A perfect 'Welcome to Southampton'.
But that is my heart speaking. Not my head, as this would never be allowed.The next best thing would be the cruise terminal next to Mayflower Park, but again, this is a working cruise terminal.

Im not sure what space there is in Southampton. I havent looked enough into it.

As for Clydebank, Im sure space could be found a lot easier. It would be a perfect start to regnerating that whole area. Only problem is, what are transport links like in that area?

Oh, and the engines must stay, whether they are running or not. It would be nice to keep them running as they are now, but I think we have to accept this will not be feasible. It adds too much to the running costs.


James

 

[JimWinsor]

They should put her in the dry dock where she was built?....I live here in Kingston Ontario Canada and we have a Marine Museum here.There is a dry dock there as it was part of the  local shipyard during WW II.It now houses a Canadian Coast Guard cutter( retired ) ALEXANDER HENRY.The ship is in the dry dock permanently.It now serves as a bed and breakfast for the city and all the tourists it draws in.This may be a good idea as well for QE 2 if it were to return to Britian.

[highlander0108]

Her fitting out basin is waiting for her in Clydebank, adjacent to the Titan crane that helped fit her out.   The slipway where she was built, next to the fitting out basin, is now home to a community college, but there is a plaque where the slipway once stood.  The area is currently under construction with a major redevelopement plan in place that, to me, does not pay homage to the history of the shipbuilding industry whatsoever.  It looks like there is mixed income apartments planned to line the fitting out basin.  In time, few will remember what took place in that basin, the fitting out of all three great Queens as well as many navy ships. 

Having QE2 return to the Clyde is a dream, but not totally unrealistic.  The fitting out basin would have to be dredged for starters.  Her foremast and funnel would have to be temporarily removed to fit under a bridge, and plans would have to be modified for the area.  I cannot imagine a better place for her if not Southampton.  As the original Queens were built, putting local people to work, so would the conversion of the ship to a permanent tourist destination for the Glasgow/Edinburgh area.  See my blog link below for info on Clydebank and the redevelopment plans.

Having said that, if she were relocated to Southampton, she would make a great place to overnight before or after returning on a Cunard voyage, rather than staying at the Holiday Inn.  Either way, she belongs back in the UK.

Ken

[Twynkle]

For a short -term 'waiting' period, does anyone know whether it would be possible for QE2 to be sailed to Loch Striven, close to the Clyde?
Although there's a small amount of ongoing opposition to the few 18 month old cargo ships of same length as QE2 already there, waiting for the economic upturn upturn - wouldn't it seem a good plan in the interim period?

This would buy her new owner or lease-holder time - and allow for plans that suit everyone for her to become a much loved, well used 'fixture' back in the UK.

[mickey g]

According to yesterday's London Evening Standard, QE2 is already moored in Cape Town!!!! This was mentioned twice in an article concerning the Dubai financial crisis.

[LegendOfTheSeas]

For a short -term 'waiting' period, does anyone know whether it would be possible for QE2 to be sailed to Loch Striven, close to the Clyde?
Although there's a small amount of ongoing opposition to the few 18 month old cargo ships of same length as QE2 already there, waiting for the economic upturn upturn - wouldn't it seem a good plan in the interim period?

This would buy her new owner or lease-holder time - and allow for plans that suit everyone for her to become a much loved, well used 'fixture' back in the UK.

She could just as easily be laid up in Southampton or the Fal.

[Twynkle]

That's interesting, Legend of the Seas.
Do you have current information from the Port Authority, and Harbour Master regarding the technical feasibility of a lay up,
taking into account her length and draft?

[highlander0108]

It needs to be a bigger city, or an area with a bigger population within range of the ship.  Think QM1 at Long Beach, for example.  This means she won't threaten local businesses.
It needs to have moderate temperatures, although i suspect too cold would be better than too hot.
It needs to "like british things".
It preferably needs to appreciate old things - shabby chic! rather than luxury=glitzy.
Preferably, it needs to have not too much "wow" that QE2 will just disappear into it all...
It doesnt necessarily need to have an amazing waterfront/port, but QE2 must be visible from land I think.
High unemployment might be useful, but this might cancel out potential profits from visitors I suppose...

It seems to me that anything at all is better than our freshly painted and re-registered QE2 just sitting at Port Rashid baking and getting dusty in the desert... so lets think of somewhere.

Rob, I think you just described anywhere on the Clyde.     Bringing her back home would require a substantial  investment with crew and fuel.  If she did ever return, you best chain her down so they can't take her away again.  Reminds me of the grounding on the Brambles.....

[LegendOfTheSeas]

That's interesting, Legend of the Seas.
Do you have current information from the Port Authority, and Harbour Master regarding the technical feasibility of a lay up, taking into account her length and draft?

Of course I don't - BUT the Fal is a well-known lay up area for large ships, as is Southampton. Even an anchorage out in the Solent. Not very long ago, some large bulk carriers QE2's size were laid up in Southampton, as were some vehicle carriers and, bearing in mind large ships (including QE2 herself of course until last year) use Southampton as a base then there's no reason why she shouldn't be laid up here.

Going on Rob's criteria, the South Coast fits the bill as easily as the Clyde does.

[Cruise_Princess]

No one would love it more than  me to have QE2 near by on the Clyde so I could see see her all the time....but financially and realistically I don't  think it would ever happen...mores the pity....but somehow I think Sydney could be a good home for her...the Aussies really took her to their hearts , Im sure she would be looked after and there is plenty of tourism out there to keep her going.....what do you think?

[mickey g]

I think you are right Cruise Princess, I've thought it many times that Sydney would be ideal as it is screamily obvious that, not only do the Aussies love her, but also they have escaped the worst of the recession.............just a thought 

[Chris]

This is a suggestion from a friend I met aboard QE2 in 2008:

I sometimes read the forums but for now, I'm not really a joiner but I do love to read what other people are saying.......my only contribution for the ongoing talk about a new home for QE2 would be the birthplace of her founder, Samuel Cunard... in Halifax, Nova Scotia....a beautiful waterfront harbour.....

Sounds good... I wonder if anyone has any sway in Halifax?

[Matt]

Oh why not send the dear old girl down under! Here to Australia!
 There are various ports across Australia that could cater for the QE2, What you would firstly think of would be Sydney. Yes this port could cater for the QE2, and a port that is very familiar with the QE2 as i believe she visited here every (definitely most) years during her World Cruise's. Also Melbourne could be another place worth of catering for the QE2. I also believe Fremantle Port would be a great home for the Queen Elizabeth 2 as this port has quite a large berthing are on the passenger side of the Port, However more parking bays would be needed. This could be catered for in numerous of the old buildings which line the port, that are no longer utilised. If there were worries actually knocking these old historic buildings down, they could keep the 'faces' of the buildings and construct new internal structures in to a multi story car park, anything is possible these days!
 Western Australia has an always increasing population of British, which would cater for the demands of the QE2 as it is obviously where she originated from, being based in Southampton, so the right crowd is here! The weather this side of Aus is fantastic and wouldn’t be too hot for QE2 for too many days of the year!
 So Australia surely has some spots that are worthy of housing the QE2! She is dearly loved here, and had a massive turn out every time she would dock in our ports, going to Fremantle myself to see thousands of people lining Victoria Quay, and the North and South Mole's. She was dearly loved and we would welcome her once again with open arms, and would surely support the dear old Girl!

[Chris]

I second Beepers' notion! Would be wonderful to have QE2 down under! Do you know anyone at Sydney or Fremantle Port Authority?

[Matt]

I second Beepers' notion! Would be wonderful to have QE2 down under! Do you know anyone at Sydney or Fremantle Port Authority?

 Thanks Chris, it could be a very possible option indeed, having the QE2 down here!

Unfortunately I do not know anyone who is directly involved with the Sydney or Fremantle Port Authorities, However I do live close to Fremantle Port and could always pop down and drop in a line to the manager there with a suggestion or so? What do you think?
 Last time I was down in the port watching a Sun Princess departure, I noticed that posted on the side of the cranes was the 'DP World' logo, which is a subsidy of Dubai, if I am not mistaken? (Photo Attatched). So this could mean that Dubai has good connections with Fremantle, and I’m sure this would be the case in Sydney too, so it would make sense as having our ports as a possible berthing location for the QE2, especially if they aimed on promoting their company?
 And of course both the QE2 and the past crew enjoyed their stay in Australia, so what could be better for numerous people from across the globe to stay on this British icon in such a beautiful location, remembering Australia is a part of the British Commonwealth, so the QE2 would still be very in touch with Britain!
Regards, Matt.

[Chris]

Thanks for that photo of QE2's departure. I was aboard and VERY proud of the send off Fremantle gave QE2. Australia gave QE2 the most magnificent farewell, it was wonderful (albeit very sad).

[Matt]

Thanks for that photo of QE2's departure. I was aboard and VERY proud of the send off Fremantle gave QE2. Australia gave QE2 the most magnificent farewell, it was wonderful (albeit very sad).

 No Problems Chris, I did have a tear in my eye as the QE2 departed, knowing I wouldn’t see her again anytime soon, especially sailing in to my home port! When the QE2 was arriving and departing in Fremantle, it made quite big news, on the TV and Radio, It was even announced that she would be departing an hour late, so I am lead to believe! The QE2 really was close to us Aussies, and i believe, as you said our send-off's were truly magnificent, it proves that we are a worth location to house the QE2 as she would be looked after and cherished well!

 I have to say, I was very proud of our Fremantle send-off as it had such an amazing vibe to it, a real community feel, and I felt very connected with the people onboard also as everyone farewelled each other, and more importantly the beautiful ship with such roar and the spirit surely was there! Where were you located when the ship departed Fremantle, Chris?

 I will draft up a letter to the Port Authorities to see if they have any pull on the situation, and see the overall interest in such an investment, even though they obviously wouldn’t own the old Gal! Berthing her here, or Sydney of course would be a very wise decision for Nakheel  to make as she was so dearly loved, and would without a doubt be financially supported here, especially as we have a large number of English, myself included, and such a large amount of tourists which enter Australia every day. Consider it Nakheel, it would be a very wise choice!

 What does everyone else on the Forum think about such a location? It would be a nice location to visit her, especially with the immaculate weather for most of the year, Makes for good photographs! And especially with a decent Ferry system in both Perth and Sydney which would take you very close to the QE2, Great publicity for Nakheel too I would say, who wouldn’t want to stay aboard the QE2?

Thanks,
Matt.

[Cruisemarsh]

QE2 would work well as a hotel in Southampton. Ideally it should be her home on the Clyde but that is not realistic. Imagine, the sight of the QE2 once again in the Solent, sailing up and docking permanently in the Hampshire town. She is well loved in Southampton and would be readily welcomed back there. Southampton has a rich martime and nautical history and it's that connection with the liners that would really befit Southampton as the new home for the QE2. I certainly would go and stay on her if she came back to British waters, she is a real icon of the great days of shipbuiilding in the UK and for that I am proud that she has had a career of her magnitude. Long live the QE2.

[qe2-I-luved-it]

Southampton!  I LIVE HERE!  I would like to see the QE2 prosper in her retirement days in a good shape and kept in a good well thought out location, where she will be able to make a good income for her owners.

 
where ever she ends up. she must make a good turn over by being a super cash cow. lol. like she was for cunard.  if she doesn't then who's going to keep up with her upkeep. you will  need a  high turn over to keep her away from the scrap man and as i was sayng, Southampton worked well for her in her ocean going days but only because she wasn't permanently moored there fulltime!  she was in and out sharpish. just there for a few hours during turn around and then gone. lol

you have to rememeber that. And i do like southampton by the way! but the place is a bit down in the mouth. its just a dockside town and the qe2 needs something better than that to survie.  you can't afford to be sentimental about this subject! she will never go back to southamton, for her own sake!. it wouldn't do her any good in the long run anyway by being moored there for any amount of time. 

southamton council can't even look after the calshot properly.  The calshot is tender/tug boat that was in service when the titanic's sister ship the olimpic and QM was nocking around southampton back in the day. she know seems to the have been left moored up for years just near the qe2 terminal and almost forgotten except by a team of volunteers who work on her regular to keep her in shape.  I remember seeing on local tv some time ago that southampton council couldn't afford to keep her afloat at the dockside and was thinking of giving her up for scrap.  So when your thinking about something as big as the QE2 being moored permanently in southampton then it has to be some kind of a joke!

At the moment. the qe2 looks by all those photo's thats just been posted here, that dubia are taking real good care of the old girl.  she needs it and she deserves a final place that befits her name. not some dirty back water like southampton. Sorry, southampton but a pig is a pig and you cant change that. no matter how you try and dress it up!

Long Live QE2..

[Chris]

Where were you located when the ship departed Fremantle, Chris?

I was in the "Bit Under the Bridge" as we sailed into one of the most beautiful sunsets I've ever seen.

The send off was fantastic. QE2 was an hour late arriving in Fremantle as there was a container ship that was holding up our arrival. Therefore, Captain McNaught decided to leave an hour late which was excellent as the crowds just grew and grew.

I was actually interviewed by a number of TV and Radio stations that day, the press were everywhere, it was an awesome vibe.

[rough crossing]

qe2-I-luved-it,

I well understand your point about Southampton Council - and I did wonder about the Calshot - but if the QE2 ever came back, I can't imagine the Council would be involved financially at all - it would have to be a commercial venture involving either new or current owners, a hotel operator and the Port. 

[Chris]

I suppose it's too late to use QE2 in Vancouver for the 2010 Winter Olympics?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Olympic

Even if maybe she was just a dining venue / function centre (probably too late to start taking hotel bookings given the games start in Feb).

[Rob Lightbody]

To be precise

Here

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=G81+1BF&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=31.564064,81.5625&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Clydebank,+Dunbartonshire+G81+1BF,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.868497,-4.352345&spn=0.010908,0.039825&t=h&z=15

[Cruise_Princess]

Having said that, if she were relocated to Southampton, she would make a great place to overnight before or after returning on a Cunard voyage, rather than staying at the Holiday Inn.  Either way, she belongs back in the UK.

Ken

Just been looking at another cruise site that mentions QE2 returning to Southampton...

I have to say that in the unlikely event of this ever happening iI would of course be ECSTATIC!  So much so that I would regularly go to Southampton to stay on board her and just not bother cruising on any of the ugly cruise ships coming in and out of the port....

After all  being on board QE2 going nowhere far outsells any of the cruise ships going anywhere.......Don't  you agree???

[Peter Mugridge]

I'd certainly take the family to stay on board her back at Southampton more than once...

May I ask, which cruise site says this and if it's something they've just put up on it?

[Cruise_Princess]

I'd certainly take the family to stay on board her back at Southampton more than once...

May I ask, which cruise site says this and if it's something they've just put up on it?

hi its Victoria Travels site    WWW.CRUISE.CO.UK

They are always a bit behind with news and put this up to catch your eye in email  .......QE2 homeward bound..?...

[Britannic9370]

Hi all.

Like many others I would hate to see QE2 go to the scrap yard, and feel there is definitely a home for her to be had here in Britain. I for one would prefer for her to go to Glasgow for obvious reasons. Southampton would probably be the most logical place for her but as Southampton will be getting one of the Saga twins when they retire, I cannot see the city supporting 2 old ships, especially not one the size of QE2.

Glasgow however is a different matter. Firstly there is the heritage factor, not to mention that QE2 would be the perfect accomodation venue for the 2014 Commonwealth Games to be held in the city.

The ship could be run as 3 seperate hotels, for example the high end market could be managed by Hilton, middle of the range by Marriot and the cheapo rooms by Holiday Inn and/or Travel-lodge.

The galleys and restaurants are in working order and could be making money tomorrow, the library could easily be converted to a souvenier shop, and there is more than enough space on board for concert and theatre venues, art galleries ala tate Modern, bars, clubs. And as for the best maritime museum in the country... the list is almost endless.

There need be none of this "Rebuild and modernise" nonsence spouted by Dubai, that costs money and who's got loads of that at the moment? I read yesterday that Norway/France had a scrap value of £15,000,000 - that is not a massive amount and surely Glasgow could come up with the cash seeing that this would be a long term investment.

Surely I can't be the only one who would love to see this?

Maybe someone out there has other better ideas. What do you all think?

Cheers, love Rich

[Twynkle]

An interesting letter  in today's Telegraph!

'Britain should do more to preserve its naval heritage
Liverpool is a World Heritage Maritime City but lacks a significant vessel to represent this.'

SIR – Our wealth was built upon trade created on the seven seas, with a Merchant Navy second to none and a Navy that protected our interests. Yet precious few large ships are preserved in Britain, and the Cutty Sark is one of the few from the 19th century.
There is no Merchant Navy ship larger than 1,800 gross tonnage from the 20th century that visitors can experience. Other nations have done much better. The Dutch have preserved their trans-atlantic liner, the SS Rotterdam, as an example of their fine seagoing traditions, in the port of Rotterdam. We would have to travel to Long Beach, California, to experience the RMS Queen Mary, an icon of the 1930s. We did not keep the QE2, but sold her to a project in Dubai, which has now failed, and the ship is for sale again.
Liverpool is a World Heritage Maritime City, but it has no significant vessel to represent that. Perhaps ship preservation is not cool enough for present-day Britannia, but let us not forget the arduous sea-going lives of those that brought trade to these shores.
Andrew Rutter
Hagley, Worcesteshire'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/7235197/Britain-should-do-more-to-preserve-its-naval-heritage.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone would like to contact The Liverpool Docks and Harbour Company
The Managing Director can be reached here:
http://www.merseydocks.co.uk/contact-us/

http://www.merseydocks.co.uk/
This is the website

(Rob - is this the appropriate place for this post?)

[rough crossing]

An interesting letter  in today's Telegraph!

'Britain should do more to preserve its naval heritage
Liverpool is a World Heritage Maritime City but lacks a significant vessel to represent this.'

I couldn't agree more with the sentiment expressed by this corespondent - whenever I visit former great ports in the UK, I'm always struck how devoid of heritage vessels they are and how the whole ambiance could be improved by suitable ships - it's not as if there's a shortage of heritage vessels looking for a home - a good case in point is the poor old TSS Manxman of 1955 - yet another ship on the 'core list' that looks like it's for the breakers. Wouldn't she look great gracing any port? There's a very sad but evocative pic of her in the current annual report of National Historic Ships:-

www.nationalhistoricships.org.uk

Despite this organisations best endeavours, we're still losing great ships - as a maritime nation, it beats me why we can't put as much effort into historic ships as we do buildings.

[Twynkle]

In the Editors Log in Ships Monthly (March - as yet, unavailable online ), there's a very good discussion regarding QE2 as well as other famous ships, linked with both Alang and Survival.
Some of the reasons for the need for QE2 to survive are quoted below - any thoughts of Alang were dismissed with,' Once she arrives at Alang, that is final. She will be no more than a memory. We should not allow this to happen.

Just over a year ago Manfred Ursprunger, CEO of QE2 Enterprises, Nakheel hotels said, "The investment Nakheel will be making in the QE2 will ensure that she continues to be a beacon of sophistication for generations to come and will maintain her rich heritage and iconic stature'.
....
In QE2's case, there should be a viable commercial project that could keep her for future generations to see....
...A sale by her present owners will be forced by the creditors and every step should be takento save this great memorial to British shipbuilding

From reports in the same issue, it looks as if the Port of Tyne is doing really well - new contracts etc
So - how about the successful, award winning 'Dubai Ports' contributing, with a bit of help from 'everyone else',
possibly Sheik Mohammed himself, even!
There may be those who have the money to pay for QE2, it's helping them to put it on the table that counts!
Great Publicity, too!

And then when he's on a bit of leave, maybe Captain McNaught could bring QE2 home to Newcastle?
Here he is speaking about the virtues of the Tyne
'If I can bring a ship like the QE2 here....'
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIdgvy0IuTg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIdgvy0IuTg</a>
Thanks to ChronicleLive

[Rob Lightbody]

Its a shame we couldn't make more headway with this topic.  This forum has lots more "brains" to mull over this problem than "they" do.  Not another "I wish" topic, but a "I've done some research, made some calls, and here's what I think...".   

[CasinoChris]

Hi there folks,
I would certainly love to see the QE2 back in her homeland, Southampton would be great but how about London?
Let's face it, to support an attraction of her size and operating expense you have to draw a lot of visitors....what's the most visited British city by foreigners???
I'm sure she could be placed in a location easily accessed via public transport, there is plenty of dock space on the Thames.
Hey just an idea here....anyone on friendly terms with Branson etc. I would love to see her preserved in dignified surroundings.
By the by, the Saga Rose, ex Sagafjord is now up the river from Shanghai, Chinese scrappers, very great shame for that great ship to end up there and not preserved somewhere.
All the best
Casino Chris

[Peter Mugridge]

From reading through everything that has been suggested and discussed on here in recent months, my gut instinct is that the best opportunity to bring QE2 back to the UK is the 2012 olympics, helped by there already being dredgers at work in the outer Thames in connection with the new container port near Tilbury.

Howver, it is equally obvious that given the timescales and preparations that would be involved, to achieve this would require a firm positive decision to be made by October / November this year.

Working backwards, that means we need to demonstrate to the owners with verifiable figures that it would be worth their while to do this by probably the end of August, and it would need to be a convincing case.

On this forum we have:

*People who worked on QE2 in an operations and engineering capacity.
*People who worked on QE2 in a hotel and entertainment capacity.
*People who sailed on QE2 as passengers who know what makes a good experience.
*People with business skills, including marketing and accountancy.

So...

To stand any chance of anything happening, we need to put our personal preferences aside ( and that goes for me and my Southampton ideas as well ) and very quickly between us all create and demonstrate a viable business plan that shows it is worth moving her back to the UK on a long term basis (and  that means looking well beyond the high profile 2012 stuff ).

We have one serious shot at this, and one only.

W know a combined hotel / conference centre / theatre / restaurant / heritage operation has the widest appeal and will cover several different markets, maximising both custom and attention.

The outer Thames plan is the one most likely to be viable.

We must therefore concentrate on that.

So let's all get cracking on creating a plan for the owners, shall we?

[Peter Mugridge]

And as a follow up to the above ( posted separately for clarity rather than added in ), first off we need a team of good volunteers organised by their relevant skills, within the four categories listed above, each to work on looking at the costs likely to be involved with each of the specific areas.  each of these teams will need a leader with a lot of experience of those particular areas actually on QE2 herself.

Within each team each volunteer will need to concentrate on a specific aspect of that area.

And we need an overall manager / co-ordinator to oversee the lot.

We need a businesslike structure to the volunteer teams; the four leaders must report to the overall manager; the team members must report to their leaders.  That's the only way we can create a coherent plan in the tight timescale involved.

And we all know, I think, that if this doesn't work there is a high chance of QE2 going from warm lay up to long term cold layup.

[Rob Lightbody]

Great discussion Peter, well done.  I don't actually have anywhere better to suggest... but...

The point of this topic was to find a precise location - an actual dock - that would:
(a) fit QE2, have parking & transport handy, and not leave her hidden from view
(b) be in a suitable city and
(c) be in a suitable country to make it a success.
(d) not too hot.

I've just been looking at a map - Tilbury is a whopping 27+ miles outside the centre of London, which is apparently an hour by car... and i really don't know what sort of person is going to make that journey to see her (except for us).  London has so much to offer, is she really going to be anywhere near the tops of people's list of things to do/see?  The absolute minimum time it would take is a full half day.

I think there has to be somewhere better... somewhere where she can be more visible, make more impact, and be more wow.  Rotterdam was so lucky with all their working waterways stretching right into the city...

I will maybe start a new locked topic with all the sensible suggestions from within this topic.

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm not saying use Tilbury as a location - I am suggesting take advantage of the dredgers being in the area already and doing half the work in any case because they have to clear up to Tilbury ( or wherever this new container port is going to be ).

The closer to London itself the better, yes.

[Rob Lightbody]

She looks superb in Newcastle on Google street view... its a great spot for her.... but I would be fairly sure that they need that space for revenue earning active cruise ships ?

[Twynkle]

Good Thinking, You Guys!

RE. Getting to and from QE2, wherever she is.

Logistically, her position will be important for bunkering, supplies, for Crew, Staff and Visitors especially.
(It's interesting to watch comings and goings alongside in Dubai - unless it all taking place 'after webcam hours', very little seems to happen!)
Maybe her Tenders can be put to good use too.

Access to Thames / London Gateway
25 miles from the centre of London - less to Stratford, 'Home' of the  2012 Olympic Games
 

Thames Gateway is approximately 2.5 miles from the M25 (peripheral motorway round London) and the Queen Elizabeth Bridge.
It's approx 4 miles one of the biggest Industrial and huge Shopping Centres on both sides of the Thames in the South East (Both are used by French and others coming from the other side of the English Channel!!)

There are rail links along both the north and south banks of the Thames
Nearest airports - City, Gatwick, and Stansted!

The Local Councils will need to be involved - and many others besides!
The Thames Gateway has been identified as an area in much need of development - QE2 could be useful in this respect too.

Thames / London Gateway has, since it's conception has been identified by Dubai World and Ports as being the biggest port for the biggest container ships.....

[Twynkle]

She looks superb in Newcastle on Google street view... its a great spot for her.... but I would be fairly sure that they need that space for revenue earning active cruise ships ?

Rob - is there still an active dry dock facility on Tyneside?
Saw lots of old docks, dry and wet from Saga Ruby last year
The problem of the Tyne could be the same as Liverpool - her length...
If by any chance Captain McNaught is around these parts, maybe he could help with relevant information?

There were posts about the possibility of Newcastle earlier,
From the experience of sailing up the Tyne, it struck me then that she could do a lot worse than being tied up there!
Would it be similar in proximity to the position of SS Rotterdam?

[Rob Lightbody]

Love the idea of using the tenders to get up the Thames!  Thats a BRILLIANT idea!  I wonder if SS Rotterdam could adopt that too?  It would be free advertising too.

[Twynkle]

And a Fleet of Minibuses from the Garage!!
PS Waverley will come and visit too!
In fact she could have double the amount of Tenders.....

[Twynkle]

And...
While we are discussing the 'where' rather than the 'how'

Maybe QE2's owners would think in terms of the London Gateway first, before sailing her up to The Clyde for the Commonwealth Games in 2014
That would be a Very Good Thing - Particularly for QE2 as well as for everyone anywhere near Glasgow, Greenock and the rest of the North.
Think of the Tenders there too, Rob!

[flagship]

Afraid I have said this numerous times before - NO Cunard Captain would entertain taking her through the Thames Esturary. if anyone knew how to handle her and her foibles they would rather than the current team of officers on board who have had no experience in driving or getting to know how she handles when on the open sea. It could have more to do with dredging - turning her, the tides, the route of the river etc etc. There may be no place to get her alongside. The Thames is just not an option.

[Rob Lightbody]

Oooh!  QE2 tenders running up the Clyde, past John Browns, right into the city centre!  LOVE IT!  But I'm not sure there's room for her at Greenock - except anchored - will need to find out!

[Rob Lightbody]

Thank you Michael.  Thats just the sort of thing we need - locations suggested, checked out, then disregarded or included in the shortlist.

[Chris]

Michael, just out of curiosity. How often was it suggested to Captains that the Thames might be added to the itinerary?

[Peter Mugridge]

She doesn't have to go alongside at a river bank; in the case of London gateway a pier could be built and she would be berthed, say, a quarter the way across the river ( not half way - that would cause a navigational hazard ).

I was thinking it would only ever really need to be a one way move, though I'd agree that if there was the intention of having her in a different location every couple of years that the Thames Gateway would be less attractive.  It's not so much the dredging to make room to get her in that's a problem, it's how quickly the dredged area would silt up again isn't it?

[Twynkle]

Rob
Someone who is an experienced marine surveyor / assessor on Merseyside informed me about the  Dry Dock at Inchgreen - some time ago
(posted here, too I think!!)
http://www.river-clyde.org.uk/dry_dock.html
It was recommended because QE2 could be sailed up the Clyde and she would fit in there.


About London Gateway - Dubai Ports are expecting to bring in very many of the 'biggest ships in the world'
This is what contributed to the thinking about the area! They are dredging channels at the moment.

Hopefully any decision for QE2 is already taking account of all the technical advice that can be made available to them - this could include advice from those that know her and her quirky ways best.
Maybe they will emulate the sensible plan that was used for Queen Elizabeth - in using her previous Captain and Chief Engineer as consultants, before any decisions are made.

Maybe the decision about her future won't change  - it just seemed so sad that their plans for Capetown idea didn't work out.

[flagship]

Chris - Trafalgar House wanted the QE2 there for the opening of the Queen Elizabeth II Bridge and were told it couldn't be done and I asked for every Round Britain she did and told NO!

Peter: your plan seems to be as grand as Boris Johnsons one to relocate Heathrow to the Thames Esturary.

There would be zero benefit to the Olympics having her here.

[Peter Mugridge]

Michael, a couple of points to that:

Firstly, I think the dredging for Thames Gateway has only recently started and I can quite understand that they wouldn't dredge for a one off visit.  I think that's a bit different from bringing her in as a permanently moored hotel etc?

Secondly, no benefit for the Olympics - that is true, it's more a case of taking advantage of the hype surrounding the Olympics for QE2 rather than the other way round.



Not really my plan anyway, personally I'd still prefer Southampton.  It was just I had the impression from reading all the recent posts that the consensus was in favour of London.

On the assumption not, we then seem to have a shortlist of four possibilities to whittle down; in alphabetical order ( just to be fair ) these appear to be:

Glasgow
Newcastle
Southampton
Thames Gateway

[Chris]

As crazy as it might first seem... Fremantle (Australia) could actually work.

*More about Fremantle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremantle


Reasons it could work:

• Perth is a large city, but not too large.
• 1.6m people.
• Fremantle is a tourist destination.
• As a tourist destination, stores are open on long weekends and Sunday.
• As a tourist destination, it is a "must see" area for anyone visiting Perth.
• There is a high number of tourists from UK and ex. empire nations that come to Perth.
• It has heritage interest already, a maritime museum, a submarine tour, heritage buildings and a direct ferry link to Rottnest.
• There's a warm climate, hot in summer months (but not much over 40c), cool in winter which QE2's air conditioners can handle.
• Also benefits from "The Fremantle Doctor" in the afternoons making the whole area cooler than most of Perth.
• There is a serious lack of good hotels in Fremantle!
• And... there's a dock available.

Fremantle's passenger terminal is at the F and G sheds.
The container ships dock on the other side of the harbour.
The E sheds, and west towards the Maritime Museum are unused.
E-Shed looks after the Rottnest Island ferry however this could be accommodated for within a greater QE2 complex.

See map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=E+Shed+Fremantle+Port&sll=-32.054399,115.741578&sspn=0.006602,0.01634&ie=UTF8&split=1&filter=0&rq=1&ev=p&radius=0.57&hq=E+Shed+Fremantle+Port&hnear=&ll=-32.054026,115.741578&spn=0.006602,0.01634&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A

Notable hotel operators that are missing from Fremantle include:

• InterContinental,
• Hyatt,
• Hilton,
• Marriot...

Two images illustrating where QE2 could berth is below...
1) Original taken from Fremantle Ports depicts QE2 and Aurora sharing the F-G Sheds in 2002.
2) Original taken from Wikipedia which I have edited to show landmarks.

Finally...
Forgot to also mention two pointers.

    * DP World runs the port - connection there?
    * Fremantle City Council are investigating a redevelopment of the waterfront including man made islands for hotels etc - QE2 opportunity there? See here: http://www.northportquay.com.au/


Fremantle makes a lot of sense.

[Peter Mugridge]

That does look good, yes.

One point - I'd create a bespoke hotel company rather than contract the management to a global chain, unless the global chain would agree to retain QE2's character and feel rather than impose their own corporate image all over her.  ( Maybe they could have their name in red where the Cunard lettering is for example ).

[RMS Queen Elizabeth 2]

She looks superb in Newcastle on Google street view... its a great spot for her.... but I would be fairly sure that they need that space for revenue earning active cruise ships ?

I've been trying to look for that but I can't find it.

[Rob Lightbody]

I've been trying to look for that but I can't find it.

http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,532.msg19153.html#msg19153

[New Century]

In recent years I have done quite a lot of research about potential alternative locations for the QE2 if her present location of Dubai goes wrong for what ever reason. My thoughts are as follows:

Dubai:

Most likely location as she is owned by them already and they have lots of money. So unless something goes wrong it is likely that this will be her home and in time she will be refurbished to become a tourist attraction etc. Dubai is a global tourism destination and is at the crossrounds between Europe and the Far East and Australia for air routes. So has considerable potential. A maintenance location is nearby in the form of Dubai Drydocks and the owner has lots of money. The only drawback is the excessive heat in the desert climate which may not be good for the ship.

River Clyde, Scotland:

Outside Dubai I think this has most emotional ties being the birthplace of the QE2. Peel Holdings own most of the port and the land around it and have plans for a major regeneration of the Inverclyde Waterfront around Greenock in the next few years. I feel that Great Harbour, Greenock close to James Watt Dock would be a good location behind the breakwater. There she would tie in well with the regeneration of James Watt Dock and the proposed business park in Port Glasgow. Along the shore of Great Harbour there might even be room to host the Concorde that currently languishes at Heathrow and display that alongside the QE2 as well. But further research on this location will be required to ensure it closely fits with Peels regeneration plans.

The second Clyde location I would suggest is her fitting out basin at Clydebank. This is trickier to get to due to the Erskine Bridge but should it be possible I feel that it is worth looking into. Again this would link into the Clydebank Rebuilt regeneration plans. The fitting out basin would need dredging of course and discussions would need to be held with the relevant authorities.

Both Clyde locations also have the benefit of a ready made maintenance location being nearby as well. The Inchgreen Dry Dock in Greenock is a possible dry dock for her long term maintenance otherwise Harland & Wolff in Belfast isn't far.

The Clyde has the catchment area of Greater Glasgow and indeed Edinburgh nearby. Good transport links to Edinburgh Airport, Glasgow Airport and Prestwick Airport. So great links internationally. Both cities are global tourism destinations especially Edinburgh with its legendary festivals and other events. The West Highlands is not far away as is Loch Lomand. Many great golf courses nearby as well. So a really promising and realistic location I feel.

Miami:

Miami is the second alternative non Dubai location I think has a realistic possibility. The location that would be best is the basin alongside the American Airlines Arena and Bicentennial Park just off the main turning circle at the end of the Main Channel by Downtown Miami at the end of Cruise Ship Row. Great location really accessible to Downtown, cruise ships and Airport. Miami is the fourth largest conurbation in the US behind New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. Each conurbation can only support one ocean liner hotel & tourist attraction though. Los Angeles area already has Queen Mary. New York or Philadelphia is to get the United States and are more keen on the US flagship than a European ship. Chicago cannot be reached by large ships so is not possible. Thus Miami has a large catchment and is a global tourism destination. Lots of people from the North East holiday down in Miami and it is a popular location for British and European expats. As a result it is likely to be welcoming to a European ship. It is one of the largest financial centres in America so finance may be a real possibility. It knows about shipping and is a major cruise hub. It is the headquarters of Royal Caribbean International, NCL Corp and Carnival Corp & PLC. The only issue might be securing the ship against hurricane risk, but apart from that the climate is great. A gate can easily be placed at the mouth of the basin to secure against surge tides. So not a problem. Also the basin is quite sheltered by surrounding buildings like the AA arena etc. Maintenance facilities are further away but nevertheless near.Options include Jacksonville or on the Gulf Coast near New Orleans. Alternatively there is the Bahamas. Miami is a real contender I feel and has a lot going for it.

So I feel that the most realistic alternative locations for the QE2 outside Dubai are River Clyde and Miami.

Others with more of an outside chance are:

New York - but fixated by the possiblity of the United States.

Southampton - no go as it is a busy commercial cruise and merchant port and needs all its available berths. No berth available.

Yokohama - already has the Hikawa Maru so may not want another. Also again busy commercial port so no berths probably.

Sydney - busy commercial port so berths few and far between.

Vancouver - good British connections but perhaps more seasonal as a destination. So less viable perhaps as an all year centre. Tends to go underground and hibernate in winter. Also busy port and more interested in smaller lake steamers etc.

Halifax - good British connections but again busy commercial port so may lack suitable berths. Also rather exposed location. Again rather seasonal and hibernates in winter. So perhaps less viable as all year round centre. 

Lisbon - dry dock possiblity but is it really enough of a global tourism destination to sustain the ship?

Sadly I feel that these locations are more dreams and what ifs really rather than realistic.

Really to be successful the ship needs to be in a global tourism destination or somewhere which really loves her. For me the main options are Dubai, River Clyde (Glasgow / Edinburgh), Miami or New York. Berth needs to be in the city centre and with good links to the cruise terminals and airport as well as surrounding area. Also need to consider nearest maintenance & refiit dry dock. But must not make the mistake of the Queen Mary which is too remote from Downtown Los Angeles and so is harder to sustain.

But the first step is what is Dubai's intention is there any possibility they may wish to offer her for sale? Once that fact is established then things can get moving in gauging interest for hosting her instead on the Clyde or in Miami.

The other possible locations are dreams and nice to think about but realistically there is only the Clyde and Miami as serious options.

Alex

[Chris]

Case for Fremantle has support from the Mayor, Chamber of Commerce and confirmation berths are needed for 2011  ISAF Sailing Championships:

http://www.inmycommunity.com.au/news-and-views/local-news/Freo-to-house-QE2/7560490/

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

That's a heartening and realistic article! Great to read both there and in the comments that QE2 would be welcome in Fremantle. I hope the offer will be examined closely.

Well done, Chris and Rob.

[Chris]

Thanks Isabelle.

Rob was a great help in the article, but thanks also to Angie, the reporter from the paper who spoke with the Mayor and the Chamber of Commerce - both of whom support the idea which gives the case for Fremantle an extra boost.

Hopefully someone at Nakheel is watching / reading.

Cheers,

Chris.

[Matt]

Finally some recognition! I have been down there numerous times and made suggestions and never heard anything back! I think it might be time for another letter to express my interest in the cause! Fremantle is a very possible port to house Queen Elizabeth 2, firstly as Dubai, through 'DP World' has ties with the Port, as they work out of a few berths on the North side of the harbour (See previous post of mine of the DP World Crane in the Common User berths at Fremantle) and DP world is also expanding operations out of Fremantle, marked by the recent arrival of a large Post-Panamax crane for the terminal. http://www.fremantleports.com.au/MediaPublications/6241.asp

 Also there are lots of different works occurring throughout the Port, with the 2 Million dollar upgrade of the Fremantle Passenger Terminal, the refurbishment of the B-Shed, which is being turned into a cruise terminal for smaller cruises to Rottnest and up the Swan river, and the addition of eatery’s/cafe (http://www.fremantleports.com.au/MediaPublications/6321.asp). Furthermore, the dredging of the harbour sea bed, the reclaiming of land in Northport, significant increases in trade (containers, car imports) traffic, and increasing cruise ship visits (http://www.fremantleports.com.au/MediaPublications/6299.asp).

Cunard ships generally draw HUGE interest here in Western Australia, with their presence made known on the Television news, radio, and of course the Fremantle Port Website. QE2's final departure, on an amazing 5th March sunset, drew huge crowds to the port, lining the North and South Mole, and Victoria Quay, where a live band helped to farewell the ship, along with free flags from the port, and an aircraft towing a farewell message to the ship. It was special indeed and you could feel the emotion from everyone (Especially myself, the loudest cheerer of us all, a little embarrassing, but i didn’t care! It was the special Queen, and it drew tears to my eyes as she blew that horn for the final time!) , all who would love to see the QE2 again, so the support is here, that’s for sure! More recently marked the maiden arrival of the QM2; this event drew an even bigger crowd, tens of thousands in our cosy port! There was such a large support from the public and the port and surrounding places made it special, with a number of discounts, gold coin donation harbour rides, 2 for 1 to the Maritime Museum and more (http://www.fremantleports.com.au/MediaPublications/6180.asp and http://www.fremantleports.com.au/MediaPublications/6180.asp).

 As many will also know, the country, especially WA is boosted by the mining, so WA has much more potential, for jobs, tourism and of course the migrating Brits! All who will help support the QE2! The list goes on, and if anyone is interested, i can post more of my findings that’s for sure, i want to help the cause!

For now i will end with the fact that in December 2011 we have the Perth 2011 ISAF Sailing World Championships being held in Fremantle Port, so this is a significant event that can help boost the QE2's cause, and a viable economic reason to bring her here as 'Fremantle Ports and DP World presents: Hotel QE2!'

 Cheers for now!
Matt

P.s Upcoming event for Fremantle Port is the Maritime Day Expo for 2010, a potential place to push the cause to the maritime enthusiasts and general public, what do you think Chris? (http://www.fremantleports.com.au/MediaPublications/6311.asp)

Photos By Myself, March 5th 2008

[Chris]

Superb feedback Matt!

I especially love the photo of the crowds. It was amazingly emotional as we sailed out of Fremantle, farewelling Australia for what was thought to be the last time. Hopefully, if things pan out, she could return.

It certainly seems more and more "possible" thanks to the feedback from the Mayor and Chamber of Commerce. Interesting also that the Fremantle Port Authority didn't reject the idea outright, sounds like they are willing to consider it - which is more than can be said for Cape Town!

Chris.

[Rob Lightbody]

I think the Freo story is great.  It doesn't fall into speculation too far, and it sounds like everybody is aware that its just an idea.  Perhaps some rich person will read it and one thing will lead to another... stranger things have happened!

[Matt]

I hope to draft up a letter to the Manager of External Affairs of Fremantle Ports, or another significant person (ideas?) tomorrow and hopefully get it sent off by friday! Anyone with feedback, ideas, supporting evidence and general good points to add to the letter, can you please make them known to me!
Cheers

[Matt]

I opened the free local paper today, and on Page one was this short but to the point article!! I really hope this sparks interest in the cause, and QE2 can be sent to a loving and supporting home! I really feel this forum is helping to keep QE2 alive, and a great deal of interest in her too!

(It is part of the article by Angie Raphael, but in the newspaper)

[Chris]

Which paper?!

The full paper report of QE2 from "The Fremantle Gazette" can be seen here:

http://epaper.communitynews.com.au/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=CNGA&BaseHref=FG/2010/06/29&PageLabel=1&EntityId=Ar00100&ViewMode=GIF

(She made front page)...

And P. 3 story:

http://epaper.communitynews.com.au/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=CNGA&BaseHref=FG/2010/06/29&PageLabel=3&EntityId=Ar00300&ViewMode=GIF

[Chris]

Articles from Tuesday's paper follow:

[Matt]

Which paper?!

 The article was on the inside of the front cover of the newspaper 'North Coast Weekender' (Thursday July 1st edition). She really is getting some interest around here Chris, it has gotten this far north of Freo! Haha

[Chris]

Superb!

There has been a very positive response from Perth regarding this so far.

Hopefully Nakheel are taking notice. Fremantle has local support, possible space and an event where they need a hotel ship.

Superb!

[Bob C.]

Been to Fremantle/Perth and loved the place although its a bit far to travel from Florida...but as long as she gets a fitting second life, I'm all for it!

Not sure where they'd put her pierside space seems to be at a premium.

[Chris]

There is some space potentially available on the Southern side near the Maritime Museum.

The Mirror (Captain Greybeard) has picked up on the Fremantle ISAF Sailing World Championships idea:
http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2010/07/new-hopes-for-two-old-girls.html

[highlander0108]

I can report back that having been on Queen Mary 2 today, I overheard this news item discussed several times amongst the ocean liner enthusiasts onboard to see the Bill Miller movie. 

[Chris]

This is exciting.

Now, how to get it from an idea (albeit with some support in high places) to reality... any thoughts?

[Matt]

I can report back that having been on Queen Mary 2 today, I overheard this news item discussed several times amongst the ocean liner enthusiasts onboard to see the Bill Miller movie. 

Bloody Hell! Things spread like wild flower around the world! This is great news its getting such a wide interest and support! Hopefully Nakheel and Fremantle Ports are really listening in! Fingers crossed they are in negotiations!

[Rob Lightbody]

What really needs to happen is for a rich Fremantler ? to love the idea, and to go to Dubai waving a worked out business plan and a fairly fat cheque book!  Not to buy the ship, but to make it a joint-venture that will benefit both sides.

[Avariel]

I re-read the news article that Chris posted up and spotted the mention of Singapore.

These are just my thoughts so ...

At the moment, I wouldn't be too quick to say Singapore is a potential home for QE2. Currently I'm still watching out for news on the Doulos - have heard that there was plans to convert her to a floating hotel as well. And Singapore will be home to a replica of a 9th-century sailing ship from Oman - called the Jewel of Muscat. Will have to poke around and find out more about said sailing ship and future for the ship.

With all that said, I would watch out for news on these two ships to see if Singapore can be a home to QE2.

Also, Singapore is smack in the middle of the tropics - which means hot and wet all year round. And that might be a concern as well.

Honestly, I would be happy beyond words if QE2 could find a home here.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

I re-read the news article that Chris posted up and spotted the mention of Singapore.

Good idea to focus in more, on each of the potential destinations mentioned in the list of potential homes for QE2.

http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,2043.0.html

It was my impression that, on World Cruises, QE2 usually called at the Singapore Container Port (she certainly did when we were on board in 2002, and she also did in 2008), and I believe this was because she needed the space. She has not shrunk in the meantime...

If she is going to stay there for a while, she would, however, need to be accessible, which she was not in the Container Port -- no visitors allowed, and thus no photographs of her from the ordinary Singapore residents when she called. Or did you ever manage to catch her there, Avariel?

Fremantle at present looks like the far better option -- even without the spectacular sunset that made her final sailaway from there the best of the whole World Cruise (at least for me, following the World Cruise on Flickr, as she went along her way!).

[Avariel]

Good idea to focus in more, on each of the potential destinations mentioned in the list of potential homes for QE2.

http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,2043.0.html

It was my impression that, on World Cruises, QE2 usually called at the Container Port (she certainly did when we were on board in 2002, and she also did in 2008), and I believe this was because she needed the space. She has not shrunk in the meantime...

If she is going to stay there for a while, she would, however, need to be accessible, which she was not in the Container Port -- no visitors allowed, and thus no photographs of her from the ordinary Singapore residents when she called. Or did you ever manage to catch her there, Avariel?

At present, most of the larger ships that call into Singapore dock at the container port.

However, they are currently constructing a new cruise terminal - that will be able to handle even the largest ships. I'm not too sure when construction will be completed - but I have heard that it could be as soon as this year. Also, this new cruise terminal will be located in an area that will be very accessible - there will be both bus and subway train links there.

But I don't want to get all excited about QE2 coming to Singapore because I don't think Singapore ever had a floating hotel. So I want to see how the Doulos will be before saying too much about QE2.

[Chris]

What really needs to happen is for a rich Fremantler ? to love the idea, and to go to Dubai waving a worked out business plan and a fairly fat cheque book!  Not to buy the ship, but to make it a joint-venture that will benefit both sides.

In lieu of that, perhaps a dialogue between Nakheel and ISAF / Fremantle Ports / Chamber of Commerce WA, to get the ball rolling.

Fremantle is part of Perth and with 1.6m people there's an answer out there; but if no rich WA person comes to the rescue maybe Nakheel can do it themselves with support of local authorities...

[Rob Lightbody]

we were talking in the chat room last night, and came up with Gibraltar as a destination.  It seems to make sense for all sorts of reasons.

Does anyone know any good contacts that we could ask initially?  Is there somewhere for her to go?

[Twynkle]

If her owner is unwilling to allow QE2 to come to the UK for
2012 - London Olympics
2012 - Diamond Jubilee of HM The Queen
2014 - Commonwealth Games in Glasgow
then Gibraltar Sounds very good indeed!

Would there be technical difficulties? 
There's little quayside space - it's often an 'anchor port'
In 2009, there were very many merchant ships anchored off...waiting ?for what
Looking at the AIS over the past year, it has continued to be busy - and Saga Rose waited there for some time, too.

[Chris]

Maybe we should turn this on it's head - rather than one destination, "Where can HOTEL QE2 sail to, to work best" - short tours, like a museum exhibit, that travels around the world - only here you can stay aboard.

So far we have:

- Fremantle ISAF 2011 .
- Singapore?
- Korean Port?
- Tour of the USA maybe? - Perhaps LA (near QM??) and then across to NY.
- Britain in time for 2012 Olympics, 2012 - Diamond Jubilee of HM The Queen.
- Gibraltar.
- Back to UK for 2014 - Commonwealth Games in Glasgow.

Short stints would ensure she is popular and well booked each port she visits, and the novelty value doesn't wear off?

Another thought - would day-trip tours of the Panama Canal (or Suez) be cost prohibitive / Cunard prohibitive?

[Peter Mugridge]

I would suggest that we concentrate on looking closely at the potential details for Freemantle given that the various authorities over there have expressed open interest and surely by now time is running out to make any sort of decision?

Please go back to my earlier posts ( #117 and #118 ) on this thread; my points remain valid - it's only the location that is different.

My consideration is that to throw in other location suggestions now risks being a distraction rather than a help.




Edited to add previous post number references.

[Rob Lightbody]

I think Fremantle is an excellent suggestion BUT unless someone there has copious quantities of CASH and a formalised business plan, nothing will happen.

I still think people should be racking their brains to think of brilliant places, and DOING something about it - the way that Chris has.  He should be an inspiration to others to do the same.

We had quite a long list of reasons for Gibraltar - shortage of event space - shortage of hotel rooms - the 'british' factor - large number of wealthy people (due to tax evasion) - maritime links - daily visiting cruise ships - tourist attraction...

[Peter Mugridge]

Sounds like I missed a good chat, but I didn't get online until gone 23.00 last night!

[Twynkle]

....I still think people should be racking their brains to think of brilliant places, and DOING something about it - the way that Chris has.  He should be an inspiration to others to do the same.

Brains are being racked...something has been DONE about it - here in the UK, too!
Although no further news, yet.
Rosie

By the way...what about asking Mark Knopfler, Billy Connolly as well as other (wealthy?) Scottish Heroes for their ideas on getting QE2 to visit Greenock?!

[Twynkle]

This is 'QE2 for Glasgow'

http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18860&st=15

(Rob and Mods - is there a topic specifically for QE2 returning to The Clyde?
If there is - I'm sorry; I looked but couldn't find one)

[QueensFan]

I think that the traveling idea is one of the better ones out there. It would be a unique thing to do -- she's in mechanical shape to continue sailing, and could move where needed -- bringing excitement to wherever she docks. There's plenty of ports around the world to keep her occupied.

The question is, what's the SOLAS legality? (Not to mind the Cunard/Nakheel contract.) Assuming that she isn't refitted for SOLAS -- a task of unknown scope -- I'd assume that she wouldn't be able to carry passengers overnight while moving. Fair enough.

Could she be registered as some other type of ship, other than passenger, and be able to both sail freely, host overnight passengers while in ports, and not require modifications? Would there be flagging questions regarding that? (It would be lovely to see her once again registered in Britain, but I'm guessing that the same issues as arose in the Port Vila reflagging would come back.)

There are so many world events in need of hotel space...she could also serve duty in Sochi for the 2014 Winter Olympics before heading up to Glasgow for the Commonwealth Games that summer.

In some ways, it's the best concept for her, at least for a mid-term future. Keeps her in good shape, keeps her fresh, keeps her needed.

[Peter Mugridge]

The sewage system would need sorting out before she could go to most of these places now, though.

[Rob Lightbody]

She can host "passengers" in port as-is, she just can't take them anywhere - for a variety of reasons.

[Rob Lightbody]

Could she be registered as some other type of ship, other than passenger, and be able to both sail freely, host overnight passengers while in ports, and not require modifications? Would there be flagging questions regarding that?

All of this has already been done.  What they did last year, for Cape Town, was the only way possible to achieve this, and they figured it all out, which took a while, and they did achieve it.

[highlander0108]

This is 'QE2 for Glasgow'

http://discuss.glasgowguide.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18860&st=15

(Rob and Mods - is there a topic specifically for QE2 returning to The Clyde?
If there is - I'm sorry; I looked but couldn't find one)

Rob has posted here and I think he was reading my mind.     Rosie, getting Mark Knopfler or Billy Connolly involved with a campaign would surely get more media plan and both are passionate about Clydebank shipping.

[Eric]

What about San Francisco? She would fit well there and be handy in case there is an earthquake. I just want her out of the hands of the sheiks and I want her in a traditional honorful place.

[Cunardqueen]

Has Dubai thought to open her for day tours? it would seem a very easy way to recoup some of the money, Ok so it might be  a drop in the ocean compared to the running costs, but right now she is bringing no money in & with visiting cruise ships calling there, surely it makes sense, who wouldnt want to see over the QE2. Ok so keep the lower decks closed off, the watertight doors would do that and they could do a self guided tour thing? End up having afternoon tea in the Queens Room

 Shes sitting there right now doing absolutely nothing, the visitors to Dubai need something to do other than shop . If the Burj ala hideous hotel can charge £70 for afternoon tea !
Really what cost would there be, other than in staff and basic food supplies? 

[Rob Lightbody]

You're absolutely right Myles - although not during the red-hot dubai summer!

• Afternoon tea in the Queens Room.
• Meals in the Caronia Restaurant.
• The Chart Room bar presumable has a view over Dubai?
• Small receptions in the midships lobby!
• Classical music recitals or conferences in the theatre

I think you could come up with a nice wee list.  I wonder what the issue with regards to insurance is though.  Presumably at the moment she isn't insured to have any members of hte public on board at all.  The other issue is - would anybody want to go...?  Ali told about the people on board her cruise ship not taking any notice/not caring at all that the ship up front was the QE2.  From what they told me, they wouldn't be interested whether she was open or not...

[Chris]

Ali told about the people on board her cruise ship not taking any notice/not caring at all that the ship up front was the QE2.  From what they told me, they wouldn't be interested whether she was open or not...

Philistines! 

[andyh]

I know berthing her in Southampton has be suggested before, but what if Cunard was to buy her back, at a somewhat reduced price, and use her as a hotel in Southampton.
It could be part of your holiday package, you spend the night before your voyage on the QE2  with all the usual refinements then in the morning you would have a nice breakfast then go through your boarding procedure for your trip at your leisure while still onboard the QE2, your baggage would be transferred to your stateroom and you would be transported in style, straight to the ship, bypassing the terminal booking procedures, this would add a little extra elegance to the beginning of your voyage, and Cunard could sell the service to other ships in dock to take up the slack, or even just offer nights on board to those interested, with priority given to those have booked on the "Queens"

I am sure they could make money out of this 

Just a thought

Any one from Cunard reading this 

[Rob Lightbody]

I know berthing her in Southampton has be suggested before,

I think the snag is that there is nowhere to put her - at all.  Even some people who want her back in Southampton, have not been able to find a place for her.  Also I was reading that Southampton is expecting a dramatic increase in cruise business going through the port.

[LegendOfTheSeas]

There are proposals for another cruise terminal in Southampton, so the chances of QE2 being allowed to come home to Southampton are remote to say the least, as much as it pains me to admit it (despite what I've posted earlier - there was no new cruise terminal on the cards then). There's just no room, even if the container ships are kicked out to Dibden Bay (the proposals for a new container port there have been resurrected).

Now, though, I don't care where she goes, as long as she's out of Dubai, won't be left to deteriorate/be cut to bits/scrapped and is looked after and loved.

[Twynkle]

Comments and images of Queen Victoria's call at the Port of Liverpool
These and other images elsewhere  go a long way to show how QE2 could fit in

http://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/421846/1.html

Wishing still that  QE2 could be moored here...bang in the middle of Town!
Wouldn't it meet all her requirements, as well as most of the area's too?
I can remember literally miles of ships parked up bow to stern alongside,
on both sides of the river.

Hello QE2DXB
If you are reading this, do you think it might ever be possible - please?
Perhaps before she goes to Greenock for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow!

PS. To Rob - Here qV is called an iconic Liner - please forgive the mistake!!

[highlander0108]

Thanks for the link Rosie.  Some of the responses to the article were interesting...

These slab-sided floating boxes are (IMHO) hideous ! Nothing like a "cruise liner" !. They appear to be inherantly unstable. The draught they draw is completely insufficient for the weight/height/area above the waterline.

A real Force 12 sea running in some foreign pond or other, plus the windage...... over she goes ! Maybe a thousand or so folk heading for Davy Jones's Locker whilst trying to get out of their rip-off priced, upside down, pitch black "luxury" coffins/cabins.

No - I'm not a naval architect. I just have a bit of commonsense and an appreciation of basic physics.

One day baby, one day !!! Mark my words. Maybe not this floating block of flats, but a similar buoyant hideousity.You heard it first on wikiwirral ! It would be handy for future historians if Cunard changed its name back to the White Star Line. (Titanic - geddit?)

At least the poster admits they're not a naval architect!     I cannot believe it has been almost 2 years since QE2 made her final call to Liverpool.