Engine Room memories

[Beardy Rich]

I thought I'd start a thread on my experiences in the machinery spaces of the QE2. Other members should feel free to add theirs also.

There were several jobs that the Asst Mechs used to have to do which involved working in a lot of heat. Among these were 'swinging the valves' (opening or closing the large steam valves) which fed superheated steam from the boilers to the turbines. Boiler cleaning, which entailed donning waterproof suits, heavy gloves and goggles for eye protection. Force Draught (FD) Fan cleaning, a messy dirty job using a high pressure water jet to blast the fan blades clean.

Standard working gear was a pair of bright orange overalls worn over just a pair of underpants (anything else would be too hot to wear), steel toe-capped boots, ear muffs and finally a pair of chrome leather gloves.

Swinging the valves in the boiler room was particularly hot work, the physical exertion required sometimes making this quite an arduous task. The metal stud fasteners on your overalls would burn your skin, sweat would run into your eyes making them sting, the steel toe-capped boots would make your feet sweat profusely. You also had to be aware of the very hot air that would scorch your sinuses if you inhaled directly over a very very hot valve.
The 'valve gang' would make frequent dashes to the water fountain situated at the fwd end of the boiler room floor and salt tablets were available to replace lost salt through excess sweat loss. Some of the valves would be quite stiff to turn and the use of a "wheel key' would be necessary to open/close the valves. The whole sequence of opening or closing valves would be overseen by the Engineering Officer on watch but the more experienced of us knew which valves to open in the proper sequence. The last three big valves to be opened would be the 'bulkhead stops'. These were massive steam valves which fed the superheated steam from the boiler room through (the bulkhead) to the engine room proper in which the Pamatrada turbines were situated. These would be opened in stages, firstly just 'cracking open' then opening with an eighth of a turn for one full rotation, then quarter turns, half turns and so on until they were fully open. After the job was done, it would have been a common sight for the valve gang to be seen either lying or sitting totally exhausted on the floor of 6 deck, overalls soaked in sweat, smoking cigarettes and sipping cups of water.

More later. Rich Drayson.

[Isabelle Prondzynski]

What a vivid picture. Thank you for having started this thread! Looking forward to more... and hoping to learn something about the engines as you write for us.

Did health and safety improve after the re-engining? Do you know of any serious accidents?

And presumably no cigarettes in the Engine Room itself?

[Beardy Rich]

Did health and safety improve after the re-engining? Do you know of any serious accidents?

And presumably no cigarettes in the Engine Room itself?

Hi Isabelle, yes health & safety did improve I think. I cannot remember any serious accidents whilst I was onboard but there have been some since I believe.
Quite a few of us were smokers in those days and I think the officers used to turn a 'blind eye' to it. A favourite place to have a sneaky ciggy was in the aft tunnel near the propellors but after the big refit in Bremerhaven CCTV was installed and our every move was monitored. I used to look forward to 'smoko' (tea break) and often went up to two deck aft for a breath of fresh air. It was also good to see daylight as we lived and worked in artificial light for most of the time.

Rich Drayson.

[Chris]

Thanks Rich for the topic and the information.

Here's a sight you will recall (taken during the 2008 World Cruise).

[Blue Bombay]

Do you know of any serious accidents?

Yes there has been a few acidents at least during my time onboard.

Louis

[Beardy Rich]

Thanks for the pic Chris. Amazing engines aren't they? Each weighing around 120 tons and the size of a double-decker bus.
Louis, yes you're right. I remember reading a newspaper story regarding two Filipino crew members seriously burnt or scalded. I'll try and find some more details.


Details of fatal accident...http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/qe2-fatality%20synopsis.pdf

[Chris]

Rich - I had seen photos of the Engines for years, however nothing really prepared me for the feeling of standing there among the engines as they powered QE2 through the ocean at a magnificent speed. It was one of the most fantastic days spent aboard that great liner.

Chris.

[Blue Bombay]

During Boat Drills and when i was on the Fire Party we made trips into the engine.It was a fantastic looking and hearing that powerful engine pumping away and knowing that at that moment you are one the fastest and most powerfull Cruise Ship in the World

Louis

[Twynkle]

Hello Rich!

Thank you - this is simply brilliant - although I'm sure the work can't have been at all easy or brilliant, for that matter!

Your description and Chris' photo are really interesting.
The work sounds terrifyingly risky -obviously hot, very noisy, cramped and probably smelly too.
How often did each one of the 9 engines get a rest or service, even
(sorry - as I definitely haven't a clue when it comes to engines and how they work!!)
I wonder how long did you have between breaks and watches
did you have to do 4 hours at a stretch?

You guy(s) kept QE2 going, and safe -
I feel very fortunate and particularly grateful

Rosie

[Beardy Rich]

Chris, Louis I know exactly what you mean... it's the feeling of sheer raw power that can only be appreciated by actually being there when the engines are running. There's a certain feeling of invincibility I think... that nothing would get in the way of QE2 reaching her destination. Maybe gilding the lily a little so to speak but you get the gist.

Rosie, yes, it was hot, noisy, usually smelly and sometimes cramped but really, the risks were minimal. There were lots of very experienced Engineering Officers onboard who would ensure that safe working practices were followed. The risks come from unexpected things happening that no-one can foresee.
Initially, the engines were looked after by M.A.N if memory serves me correctly. The engines were rested as required, in fact, only 7 of the 9 needed to run to produce enough power allowing the ship to maintain her service speed.

Some Engineering Crew worked days, some nights and some were on watch. Each watch consisted of 4 hours so there would be a 12-4, 4-8 and 8-12 watch, non-stop round the clock. The watchkeepers also had to work an extra 2 hours a day as the normal working week was a 70 hour week. Basically, it was all about running a power station at sea!

Rich Drayson.

[skilly56]

Another view, taken in Aft E/R looking fwd in July 2008. Use the rubbish bin for comparison. These engines sound totally understressed when rumbling along at 400 rpm. The generators are coupled on the front of each engine and produce 10,500 kW each.

Also shown is prop shaft tunnel looking aft - probably to aforementioned 'smokers corner'


 

[skilly56]

Sorry, in those photos the paint job look terrible, when it actually isn't!

I downsized the kb too much from the originals (first photo post) - the actual paintwork on nearly all the machinery and machinery spaces was immaculate for a 40-year-old. I have worked on ten-year-old ships that looked like forty-year-olds down below, but QE2 was just the opposite.
Skilly

[Twynkle]

Hi Skilly, and Rich

Thank you for posting those pics of the great engines
They do look hot, noisy and almost smell-able!
Like everything aboard QE2, they doubtless were maintained in the best possible condition.
Did QE2 have  'waste' disposal facilities too, (driven by engine power) for trash, water and other 'stuff'?

I'm wondering about the ratios of crew numbers 'below' the passenger areas, in the technical and deck departments
to those working in the service areas. 
Does anyone know - could it be considerably less?
If it is, then  - is this the same on all passenger ships - or are the Cunarders different,
perhaps due to the need to maintain five star hotel status?

Rosie

[Blue Bombay]

More from the Engine Room.

http://www.qe2.org.uk/engine.html

Louis

[Blue Bombay]

Another Site

http://www.nansaidh.us/webdesign/nans/enginerm.htm

Louis

[skilly56]

Hi All,

I think about 24 engineers on board to run all machinery & systems/hotel services etc. Additional to that are the petty officers & engine room ratings, plus the M.A.N. specialist(s) when he is on board.

The physical volume of machinery in the engine rooms is memorable. Being diesel electric, the QE2 has multiple power plants of much smaller size than the average container ship/bulk carrier/tanker. These days, a large, fast container ship (eg, Emma Maersk) will have one engine of over 2,400 tonnes that produces 100,000 hp for speeds of over 25+ knots. BUT, it is twice the size of the QE2, so has lots more 'airspace' in the engine room.

Attached photo is a partial view of the Engine Control Room, looking from Stbd fwd to Port Aft.

[skilly56]

Have found a few more photos - these I have scanned from a magazine I have called "Rebirth of A Queen", published by "Marine Propulsion International" in May 1987.

First shows one of the nine engines being lowered into the E.R. casing (the funnel normally lives over this opening).
The next 2 show the engine being manoeuvred into position on it's bedplate. This publication gives each engine weight as 220 tonnes, but this is probably the total of the bedplate, the diesel engine and the 70 tonne generator combined. There is also a photo of one of the 400-ton propulsion motors being lowered in but I haven't scanned that yet. It is virtually impossible to photograph a propulsion motor in position because there is so much structure/ plates/machinery around each one.

Skilly

[Twynkle]

This thread is a fantastic addition to the Forum

Thank you, again and again for showing the parts of QE2 that have been vital!

The photos of the installations alongside truck tyres and people are awesome -
then to think that the prop shafts,  all the tanks, other heavy machinery,  electrics etc etc have to be fitted in and made to work - Am-az-ing!

[Blue Bombay]

Those photos appear in the book "Tribute to a Queen" from John Maxtone Graham also.

Louis

[Beardy Rich]

Skilly, I'd be interested in knowing when you worked on QE2. Great pictures of the aft tunnel and Control Room. Do you have any more pics of the machinery spaces?

Rich.

[Bob C.]

Here's a few from an engine room tour in Aug 1969 taken by my father - I was too young to go.

[Chris]

Also shown is prop shaft tunnel looking aft - probably to aforementioned 'smokers corner'

Great shot - if you look closely at the propeller shaft you'll see the floor mats they used to keep them polished

[Rob Lightbody]

Great shot - if you look closely at the propeller shaft you'll see the floor mats they used to keep them polished

Were they really just to keep them polished?  Why did they need polished?  I had thought they were used to apply lubricating oil to the shafts, I had thought they were saturated with oil for that purpose...  but I don't know where i got that from, might have just made it up!

[Beardy Rich]

Rob, I don't think it was to keep the propellor shafts polished as such, more to keep them from rusting. We used to use offcuts of carpet which was then oiled and tied to the hand railings with stout rope. Every now and then, moving them to a different part of the shaft.

Rich Drayson.

[Twynkle]

That's 'Genious'!
Originally, were the propellor shafts made of stainless steel?

[skilly56]

Hi Rich,

PM just received - I hope the shots of the SCR don't get you down too much.

Rich, correct on the door mats. The idea of stopping any rust & corrosion is to prevent any stress-raisers starting - stress raisers sometimes lead to cracks. Not good. Also made it easier for survey & inspection - all nice & clean & shiny!

A lot of ships in the 60's to 90's that I went on had the doormats on the shaft(s). Works well on long voyages & on vessels with Controllable Pitch props. Not so good on ships like non-CPP ferries and short-sea voyages, etc, where you may be reversing the shafts all the time for manoeuvring and the mats keep falling off when the shaft reverses direction.
Cheers
Skilly

[Chris]

Thanks for clarifying the technical side of the mats Rich - I thought it was a fantastic idea when I saw them for the first time

[Beardy Rich]

Regarding the original steam turbines
I've just found out that the name 'Pamatrada' comes from Parsons and Marine Engineering Turbine Research and Development Association. I believe the company were based in Wallsend but I always thought that the turbines were manufactured at John Brown's? Was it the same for the three Foster Wheeler boilers?
Did John Brown manufacture the boilers to Foster Wheeler specifications or were they manufactured elsewhere and delivered to the yard?

[Blue Bombay]

Did John Brown manufacture the boilers to Foster Wheeler specifications or were they manufactured elsewhere and delivered to the yard?

No it was build by shipbuilding and various marine turbine engineering firms.The boilers were called Foster Wheeler ESD II design and at 278 tons each they were the largest ever constructed for a marine installation.

Louis

[ship pro]

Here's a few from an engine room tour in Aug 1969 taken by my father - I was too young to go.

the engineer in the white boiler suit with his arm out is Tommy Jackson, from the wirral, an old colleague, he subsequently went to the oil rigs and was killed in an accident on the rig around 1980

[Rob Lightbody]

See attached, sent to me by John Chillingworth, one of QE2's former Chief Engineers.

My Dad worked closely with the chap 2nd on the left, who also worked at John Browns - he's Willy Ireland.  John had hoped my father was also in this shot, but sadly he isn't, but I'm hoping John does have a photo of him in his vast collection.

Bill Coventry, the surveyor in the photo, framed the photo and put it in the chief engineers office on the ship.
John took it with him when he left the ship in 1989.

"they are doing what normally would have been a precision job on one of the turbine glands but in this case they are using a sledge hammer whilst your Dad is holding a brass dolly. "

[Xiaoshan Sailor]

ROFL!!!!  That is a classic if ever I've seen one! 

I just came across this forum yesterday & have always been a huge fan of the Cunard liners since I was a kid.

Chuck

[Beardy Rich]

Another photo for the forum. The Engineering Department taken whilst alongside in N.Y. October 1986.
Chief Engineer John Chillingworth is shown front centre alongside the other Engineering Officers.
Me? Right of centre, blue overalls, arms folded in front of me. Next to the guy wearing the grey shirt.

[Beardy Rich]

There's a fantastic video clip on facebook from Kenny Campbell of the engine room. Kenny... if you're reading this, perhaps you might consider posting the actual clip on here?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=4849581100&oid=2550025714

[Rob Lightbody]

Quick Quiz for the Engineers

What is   1-6-3-2-8-7-4-9-5   ?

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm not an engineer, but I can make an educated guess at that - engine sequence?

[Beardy Rich]

Looks like the cylinder firing order 

[highlander0108]

Cylinder firing order.  The MAN's are straight 9 cylinder behemoths!

[pete cain]

As always thanks to youtube & gunner162 for posting , turn up the sound &  it still doesn't do it justice.    

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il_TuUAsUhg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il_TuUAsUhg</a>

[ancoaster78]

Awesome vid, thanks for the link!

[skilly56]

Gunner162 = Skilly56

[ancoaster78]

Ah! Nice one, thanks for uploading it for us all :-)

[Cunardqueen]

[Beardy Rich]

Wow... a fabulous picture. He should have been wearing... I SAID HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN WEARING EAR MUFFS THOUGH. TUT TUT!

[Cunardqueen]

Maybe they were switched off   lol

By the way just how do you start the engines.. in laymans terms.. push a button and off they go?

[Twynkle]

Myles - the same thought struck here too!
So I have asked the question and more on the Engines Topic
http://www.theqe2story.com/forum/index.php/topic,1039.msg21703.html#new
Hope this is OK!

[skilly56]

Starting is via compressed air.

Every cylinder head has an air start valve which is connected to a rotary air distributor. When the start signal is given a solenoid opens the valve from the air start bottles, which then passes air to the rotary distributor which is mounted on the end of a camshaft so as to keep the air timing correct. A timed blast of high pressure air is then admitted to each cylinder in turn, in the same sequence as the cylinder firing order. This blast pushes the piston down and starts the crankshaft rotation. As each consecutive cylinder adds it's 'bob worth' the crank rotates faster and faster. When the engine is rotating fast enough, the air start is deactivated and the injection of fuel is started (having starting air and fuel on at the same time can lead to unrestrained self-dismantling of the engine!). The engine will then gradually run up to speed.
Skilly

[Twynkle]

(having starting air and fuel on at the same time can lead to unrestrained self-dismantling of the engine!)....
Skilly

Hello Skilly,
When there's an 'unrestrained dismantling of good mood', it's pretty bad -
can't imagine what would happen with an engine. 
Have you ever heard / experienced such an event?
There must be lots of drills 'in case of any accidents' happening.
It would be terrifying....


Cheers
Rosie

[Peter Mugridge]

Rosie, I think he is describing the sort of thing which happened once to engine E - Echo, which is the only case I am aware of where the QE2 put a leg out of bed, although there must be a number of cases where this has happened on other ships as well at some point?

[MacTaf]

Great Days Down Below

Having signed on the QE2 as a Fireman in 1978 or was it Assistant Mech? I did 4 x round trips to NY. With the intention of returning after rostered leave. However fate was to intervene & take me in a different direction. Some of my abiding memories  were observing the big imposing Donkey Man Jack Humphreys sniffing out the first trippers hidey holes. He knew them all & as big as he was, he was as nimble as a ballerina in getting around and much to the shirkers great surprise pulling them out. He was a tough guy on the surface but with a heart of gold as fair a man as you would find anywhere. Also Brian Atkins the Senior Mechanic who would shift sideways & stand in for Jack when on leave. Another great guy was George Fraser the Storekeeper was a great character. He always seemed to be deluged with work, but usually found the time to crack a joke. In the short time I was on board we had many work ups. A Boiler always seemed to be going down or FD fans to go ashore at short notice. Never saw much of NY always seemed to be a work up when we got there. Once got ashore to a bar across the street from the Pier & had a couple of Beers with Jack & some of the long term AM’s but that was it. The bulk head stops were a real work of art. Richie your account was as accurate as could be portrayed. Although I don’t recall the luxury of a water fountain, just relays of us in a team of 3 or 4 doing a quick turn on the valve or as more usual half a turn.. Some of the more senior engineers Chief & Staff Chief & 2nd would usually make a nice gesture & see your lack of moisture was quickly replenished with a nice can of cold beer or two. The indifference of the so-called professional 3rds & 4ths who never seemed to be around to assist would make our blood boil when we would be sprawled out on the deck along the working alleyway gasping for oxygen like fish out of water Usually one or two would walk past in their Hollywood Boiler suits with a smirk or a comment. I also remember two AM’s who knew their way around Mick Hurley & a guy named  Dixie who while they were light years ahead of us in terms of the Ship’s  ER knowledge they  never displayed any form of elitism & were always helpful to the rest of us. The two Taffy’s in the writer’s office the younger one clattering away on a mechanical typewriter with one finger style (some of us are still at that stage). I only wish I could remember the Chief & Staff Chief’s names they were 2 very pleasant guys senior in years as well as rank. Day Work Engineer was a pleasant fair haired guy who supervised the Mechanics. Who seemed to do the bulk of the planned Maintenance down below? There seemed to be no shortage of “Hollywood” Engineers who seldom ventured far outside the MCR. The regular Boiler Room guy’s on-watch always seemed to take their job seriously. One wonders what happened to the guys who had only Steam Tickets after conversion? Another character was Albert the Electricians Mate whose sole job seemed to be replacing the rubber band on the bottom of the upright vacuum cleaners which gave him direct access to the stewardesses who would bring them down for repair. Albert probably never realised what true delights faced him on a daily basis, he was usually to be found off watch listening to Gospel music in his cabin. The Pig was certainly a great place after dinner with Kevin the AB usually quick to give us a garbled rendition of something. Beer Prices so cheap they were almost non-existent. Then there was the Dhobi Arms on Deck 6 where on dry mornings you could usually procure a livener, which seems to have been a Machiavellian watering hole for scouse wingers plotting away  like Guy Fawkes to get their own show up top side. The Slop Chest where Lee Rider Jeans were always available at either a subsidised price or very cheap indeed.. Won’t say too much about the food in the crew mess, why intrude on good memories with a Negative. The chilled milk was always welcome though. Great days indeed with many nice people.

[Beardy Rich]

Great to have you join us MacTaf. Fascinating story. You mentioned Brian Atkins... it was actually Atkinson and he was donkeyman when I joined in 1984. Mick Earley and Dixie Dean were still onboard when I joined... great characters. I have lots of fond memories working with them both. Mick ended up working in the SCR and Dixie was on watches in the old T.A room before the big refit 1986-87.

I'd love to hear more of your recollections sometime.


Had a chuckle to myself about your mention of the food in the crew mess.... seems like some things never changed onboard

[MacTaf]

THE BIG STEAK OUT

Hi Rich. Thanks for correcting me. It was Brian Atkinson (Ako) & not Atkins. One of my most amusing memories as an AM in the Engine Room concerned our daily visit to the Crew Mess for lunch. Being a day worker we didn’t always have a set time, workloads often dictated. As I mentioned in my previous post the food in those in the crew mess was a negative. If you were down below or a decky that’s what you had to deal with. Unlike the Catering Dept who seemed to eat the finest. Usually our core group would go to what in those days was referred to in QE2 slang as “getting your nose bag on” about 14:00 to 14:30. Eat what you had to, enjoy a little banter & head back down below. However no matter where we sat in the crew mess in would walk this guy 7 x days a week with the most beautiful rare cooked sirloin on a silver platter. (yes sirloin 7 x days a week). If memory serves me correctly he was a sommelier or similar. He always seemed to select a table in close proximity to ours, envy was not the word. Mouth watering was an understatement. Five pairs of eyes would be hypnotised on this most marvellous piece of rare cooked steak. Aroma wafting directly under our noses. It must have been 2 inches thick and about a 1½Ib of prime stirling beef.  USDA’s finest. The **** had a  daily routine of parking it right under our noses & going up to get himself a tossed salad, or at least it seemed that way. Which brings me to the amusing part, we were all up there wallowing in self pity having just done the bulkhead stops for the umpteenth time & in he strolls usual self assured smarmy attitude. This time enough was enough!!! As he does his familiar routine to get his tossed salad an arm comes out from nowhere & that steak simply vanished. We all simultaneously hot footed it back down to the working alleyway. The steak was then attacked as if we were hyenas half laughing & half chewing. I doubt if it was anything to do with hunger that made us all so ravenous for it. Our actions had probably more to do with wanting a piece of the prank more than anything else. I‘ll never forget the bemused look on DonkeyMan Jack Humphreys face as we were all in raptures with our faces like savages covered in blood. This was barely half an hour after having finished the bulkhead stops. It probably wasn’t the wisest move we ever made in our lives. The irony of it was after Jack saw our laughter the same guys ended up being press ganged for the stops time after time. Who was it that said god pays debts without a check book? Needless to say we seldom saw the guy we had christened. BEEFY very much after that. I believe he did arrive one afternoon saw our group of Hyenas then made a quick 360º about turn that would have made a Guardsman proud.

[MacTaf]

Rich, perhaps you can help. Or anybody who would  know the whereabouts of the  of the AM'S Kevin Doyle he was on her in 78. Wally (Stewart) Cunningham, Who I last saw in the Solent Mariners mid 1980's. Frank West, Tosher,(Name I can't recall). One or would be way  past their sell by date by now.. John Hillier (Catering Dept) he was NUS Shipboard Convenor for a number of years, a    thankless task in those days.   

[Beardy Rich]

Hi MacTaf, I really wish I could help but the only name I recognise  there is John Hillier. I didn't see very much of him though (obviously).
I left the ship in 1988 and sadly, I've only ever met 3 former crew since then. One was in my daygang when I was relief donkeyman and the other guy was a deckie. I also bumped into Dixie Deane in Southampton whilst doing some Xmas shopping years ago

Perhaps they're not interested in the ship, in the same way that we are? I'm hoping that some ex-engineering dept crew members will one day find this forum and join up. It would be great to be able to catch up on old times.

[MacTaf]

I agree Rich. It would be great for others to find us. I was fortunate in that very nearly all of  my memories of the QE2  are good ones. Perhaps many weren't so fortunate? However there were guys down below who were there 30 years  plus including  on the older Queens & Franconia Caronia , etc. It's just a question of getting the message out. Which isn't so easy given the old meeting places & venues are all part of history.e.g.  Pool Office, Union Office, Seamens Watering Holes,  Merchant Navy Hotels, Missions no longer seem to be geared to the small number of UK Seafarers, e.g Ratings.. Then there is the case that many of those contract guys would avoid such places.They were in continual employment & shore leave was precious & to be maximised with family, etc. Whereas Pool Guys would have extended periods ashore & seek out the company of shipmates as boredom set in. Plus many of the single guys actually resided in the Missions when ashore.A whole Culture seems to have almost disappeared with the demise of UK domiciled crews. Neither am I sure that if demand were to swing full circle (highly unlikely) if it could be met. The primary reason for many of us to initially join up was in order to see the world. Kids today take a year out, procure a round the world ticket & up n away!!  However I think I shall do some surfing & try to establish a few links.